342 sats \ 31 replies \ @DarthCoin 30 May \ on: The benefits of no-KYC Bitcoin | Freedom.Tech bitcoin
There's no such thing as no-KYC bitcoin and KYC bitcoin.
If that will ever existed, Bitcoin will be worthless, is already failed, will stop existing.
Please stop saying this bullshit of "no-KYC bitcoin".
Yes, KYC is really bad but have nothing to do with bitcoin and also do not create two different versions of bitcoin.
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Please show me any proof that there are 2 distinct UTXOs
That right there means that one of them is NOT Bitcoin.
Unfortunately that's just false, as Bitcoin is not fungible. The history of every coin is transparent and visible, so your purchase of Bitcoin via KYC necessarily has a tie between your ID and your subsequent on-chain activity.
no-KYC bitcoin is far more useful and freedom-preserving than that purchased via KYC.
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I just gave you 1 sat for this comment, using a UTXO from a KYC exchange. Please find my IP, address and my real identity and the original UTXO of this 1 sat.
Please give me a break with this bullshit crap of "non-KYC Bitcoin".
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That's not how this works lmao.
You sent me sats on a custodial wallet from a custodial wallet using Lightning.
The issues with KYC are detailed in the article, which you don't seem to have read. A receiver being able to tie your identity back to your funds is only one of many issues and risks.
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You sent me sats on a custodial wallet from a custodial wallet using Lightning.
Does it matter? No. Or you now says that sats from a custodial account are not the same sats ?
I could pay also a zap on SN from an anon wallet (external wallet) that have nothing to do with SN account.
OK, please send me an invoice of 100 sats. I will pay it from any other LN wallet.
Apply the same.
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Strong example here. Let’s see what the response is!
That's a privacy problem. Not a fungibility. Fungibility is when all the units of the system are equally valuable, which is true. Every bitcoin can be traded with $68k, or its respective exchange rate in other currencies.
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What is your opinion of the silent payment proposal [1] (BIP 352)? Suppose that becomes the default/preferred method of receiving bitcoin. Can that alleviate some of the concerns around exchanges tracking where the sats flow?
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That is another story, is good but have nothing to do with "KYC vs non-KYC bitcoin".
I will repeat: if will exist such thing, Bitcoin will cease to exist.
What about the related topic of tainted coins? I have seen different people asking in forum posts for chainanalysis services they can subscribe to, to filter out risky addresses, because they don't want to be associated with them.
Are you ever worried about a scenario, where everyone only accepts bitcoin from non tainted addresses? Would you consider bitcoin failed in this case?
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tainted coins?
There's no such thing. That is another bullshit narrative pushed into newbies minds.
If such thing will exist, Bitcoin will cease to exist.
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I don't think we disagree here.
The question about whether this narrative exists or not depends on whether people believe in it or not. If enough people accept bitcoin from all sources without filtering it, its a bullshit narrative. If everyone starts subscribing to services, that classify risky addresses it will become real. And in this case in my opinion bitcoin has failed.
I don't have an overview over how many people currently subscribe to this narrative, but its certainly greater than zero.
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It doesn't matter from where you get your bitcoin. It doesn't really matter if you got some sats from a KYC exchange.
It matter if you NEVER go back to fiat.
It matter how you are doing a good coin control.
I wrote several guides about these aspects:
- ₿itcoin - Be your own bank, think like a bank
- Getting Started Stacking Sats Noob Journey
- From where can I get some ₿itcoin?
- ⚡ Lightning ⚡ Cleaning Machine
- ₿itcoin and privacy
- Operating with ⚡ Lightning Network ⚡ as a merchant
and many more on: https://darth-coin.github.io
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These are all great guides. I have read many of them and practice a lot of the stuff already.
Still, doesn't the act of coin control imply that I have to treat the coins different depending on where they come from? And that with some coins I am more limited in what I can pay than with others?
Let's assume I have received some coins from an address that my government has banned. I would not be comfortable in paying my rent with these coins, as it would connect them to my real identity. I can buy something completely anonymously or I can try solutions, like coinjoin, submarine swaps, opening a lightning channel. But all the solutions still require that the counterparty accepts these coins.
As government pressure mounts, it is not unrealistic to assume that fewer and fewer counterparties will accept them.
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If a merchant will (be able) reject a tx from your BTC wallet because you obtain those sats from a KYC source or will require you to provide the source of those coins, in that moment BTC will cease to exist.
As government pressure mounts
FUCK THE GOV! Why do you need gov approval to use your own money?
Rebut ANY gov, they do not have any authority or jurisdiction over your own money.
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If a merchant will (be able) reject a tx from your BTC wallet because you obtain those sats from a KYC source or will require you to provide the source of those coins, in that moment BTC will cease to exist.
Yes, it is also but I believe. My point is, you seem to consider this scenario as very unrealistic? While in my view the trend seems to be more and more in this direction and that it something we need to actively discourage / fight against.
FUCK THE GOV! Why do you need gov approval to use your own money? Rebut ANY gov, they do not have any authority or jurisdiction over your own money.
I see your point. Again it boils down to the previous question of whether enough people are willing to accept my money. If this remains true, then indeed no government has any authority over my money.
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Why do you need a gov to rule over your money?
Build your local communities that will accept your sats.
Done. Fuck the gov.
This has been happening for years...
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I will take all your "KYC-coins" happily.
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