55 sats \ 13 replies \ @petertodd 8 Jul \ parent \ on: Lessons From the Cold War: Now Is the Time for De-Escalation - Antiwar.com history
No sense getting sad about it. Get angry, get more weapons to Ukraine with fewer restrictions, and fix the fucking problem by killing Russians and destroying their industrial infrastructure.
This is a very easy problem to fix. It's not even expensive to fix: we've seized hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Russian government assets that can easily fund it. And lots more of Russian assets can be seized too.
Post WW2 Germany was forced to pay trillions of dollars in reparations that went on for decades. We even made German civilians to provide forced labor to clean up the damage they caused on a huge scale, and German PoWs were forced to do land mine clearance. Russians are just as guilty and it's ethical to do whatever is needed to make them pay for their crimes.
You do realize your logic is exactly what Bin Laden used as his justification for attacking civilians?
Is it at all possible that the peoples of many nations are motivated by propaganda from their side? Half truths. Unfair characterizations made by evil men seeking at the expense of the plebs?
I for one do not approve of most of what the US government does. I do not provide my consent to their actions. I do not trust evil men that have shown they don't even know what the truth is.
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Who cares what justifications Bin Laden used? He's was a terrorist who hated the west, and we eventually killed him for it.
Russians on average know full well what their government is doing and they clearly, on average, support it. Russia is only now, after 10 years of invading Ukraine, finally getting around to trying to clamp down on VPNs and the like. The Russian governments problem is not the Russian people supporting Ukraine. The Russian people are just angry they're not winning.
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You might as well say, "Who cares about logic".
Bin Laden justified the killing of innocents because their government invaded the lands of his people, placed military bases in them, and propped up secular dictators.
Russians are just as guilty and it's ethical to do whatever is needed to make them pay for their crimes.
Of course he is evil. You just used the same logic to justify killing Russians for the actions of their dictator. Or am I misunderstanding you? In the US we supposedly have the "consent of the governed". I reject Bin Laden's justifications. I'm just surprised to hear you espouse that same logic. Its a slippery slope that leads to endless war and escalation.
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The US was never fighting total war against any of it's enemies (at least, since WW2). US citizens just aren't that responsible for the small things the US government has done, as not many tax dollars actually go to any of it.
A double digit % of the entire Russian GDP is going to invading Ukraine. Every working Russian is personally responsible in a significant way to this war. No different than WW2 Germany or Japan.
If Russians want to have a country, the onus is on them to revolt against their government. They don't, because the average Russian supports what their government is doing.
Hell, even the anti-Putin Navalny did not campaign against the invasion of Ukraine. Quite the opposite: his supporters were busy undercovering military corruption that was preventing the war from being won faster.
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I think I understand your position. I am not comfortable reading the minds and intentions of plebs on the other side of the globe that were indoctrinated for generations to hate America just as I was to hate Russia.
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Russia won't stop until everyone agrees no NATO membership for Ukraine
Ukraine has to remain a neutral state
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IIRC it was exposed by Wikileaks that the Obama admin knew that Ukraine joining NATO was a red line for Russia. This was not the story we'd here in the media. The story is more of what Peter is saying.
Regardless of cultural judgments on intent NATO is a military alliance that was created to defend against the USSR. I can completely understand why Russians watching its membership expand would be concerned about being surrounded by hostile neighbors. Now, as we have seen from leaked documents the US manipulates leadership of nations all over the globe. As a Russian with the same distrust that Americans have for them one can see why NATO and the US breaking their promises about NATO expansion would see this as a threat.
Most American's do not see this. After all, we are the good guys. I'm not saying the people have ill will. Its the rulers. Evil men like Putin can use this propaganda just as the overlords in the US use it to gain support for war. The people have little to gain from war but those in power on all sides do.
It is telling how people respond when I seek to understand the "bad guys". Not referring to Peter here but in general.
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If Russia doesn't want to be surrounded by hostile neighbors all it needs to do is stop invading their neighbors... The hostility is entirely their own doing. And completely justified. Ukraine is just one of a long list of countries Russia has invaded.
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So Russia has nothing to fear from NATO and the US? Why would they believe that? I don't think you are right because we know the US/NATO start wars and pressure governments all over the place. It just seems like you are being rather one sided in your observations.
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NATO is a defensive alliance. Russia only has to fear them because Russia wants to invade their neighbors with impunity. NATO certainly isn't going to invade Russia without Russia giving them a damn good reason.
Hell, Putin reportedly asked about joining NATO back in 2000 or so.
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Yeah... remember when the US and Russia were getting along (Bush era I think)?
The war department is now called the defense department. Don't let the propaganda control your thinking. Whatever it is called its military with weapons of war. Defense can quickly become offense.
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Best defense is a good offense sometimes
This is not a call for an offensive
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That's already been tried. It didn't work.
Russia doesn't attack NATO because that's suicidal; if Ukraine had been allowed into NATO none or this would have happened.
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