Don’t Care About Others \ stacker news ~ideasfromtheedge

756 sats \ 26 comments \ @cryotosensei 5 Aug ideasfromtheedge

As a Japanese language enthusiast, I remember a saying The nail that sticks out gets hammered down vividly. Japanese society is rather homogeneous, so it doesn’t feel all that weird to me - the fact that people who dare to be different will attract negative attention and be judged.

Recently, I read about how a similar concept exists in Latin America. People who try to pull others down - by the tails of their jackets - to prevent them from rising more than they should have are called jacket pullers. This seems to be an illustration of the crabs in a basket syndrome in real life. So, crabs will drag each other and tumble to the bottom of the bucket. I would have thought that Latin America, a place known to have infectious and exuberant life energy, would be a good environment to foster independent thought. Guess not.

This got me to reflect on my own country. In Singlish, we actually have a phrase called spoil market. We use it disparagingly on people who set the bar so high that the rest of us commoners cannot keep up. Sometimes, it’s said in jest, but other times, it is said as a warning for over-zealous associates not to supersede everyone else.

In other words, regardless of the kind of society we live in, there are bound to be naysayers and detractors who just cannot stand what we are doing. If we get ourselves too drawn into their criticism, we might lose heart and not carry out our plans. We will not become the person we’re destined to be because we get sidetracked by others’ perceptions.

Though perhaps getting swayed by others’ judgement may not be such a problem for Bitcoiners. Choosing to live the Bitcoin Standard suggests that we embrace the path less taken and are oblivious to people who are blinded by the empty lure of fiat. With Bitcoin, we gain the conviction to tune out the noise and focus inwardly. What is the ideal life I want to carve with my sats? we ask ourselves and then execute our plan. If we are more ambitious, we might even think of transforming our community or even society with sats. We are not adverse to be the nail that sticks out because we can withstand the pounding.

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275 sats \ 1 reply \ @Kontext 5 Aug

I was just thinking about something similar yesterday. How curiosity, for example, is a pretty much a taboo. It is encouraged in general, and in theory, but only to a certain degree. Once you go "too far" outside of the "box", people will be like: "hey, get back in the box!" (or, using Plato's allegory, get back in the cave).

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei OP 5 Aug

I agree. Inquisitive children get applauded, but curious adults evoke impatient sighs of exasperation haha

90 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 5 Aug

This is one of the common human traits that I truly despise. Obviously we have it here, too, in various forms. People might be accused of "putting on airs" or acting "above their station" or "thinking they're better than everyone", just for trying to better their situation. Crabs in a bucket, as you say.

Here, these things are born out of envy and jealousy, primarily. My understanding is that conformity is more rooted in something more like purity or obedience in Japan. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Our ideal of a right to "the pursuit of happiness" stands in stark beautiful contrast to this all too human ugliness.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 5 Aug

Keeping up with the Jones

Homogeneity is easier to enforce in homogeneous societies.

Same with equality of outcomes

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 5 Aug

I think it's worse than "keeping up with the Joneses". That's a shallow greedy motivation to live more lavishly than you should, but it isn't motivated by tearing others down.

48 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei OP 5 Aug

I think there are several factors that contribute to this robust conformity in Japan: unspoken rules of engagement, consideration of other people’s feelings, deference to authority and even to people who are just 1-2 years older than you, a fear that if they step off the well trodden path, they don’t know how to proceed further, etc.

Those who find the social norms suffocating in Japan will find ways to live and work overseas

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 5 Aug

Many of those are good things, but there's an ugly side to it and I suspect many of those enforcing conformity are not doing it out of noble intentions.

One example that my wife told me about is that Japanese kids with naturally lighter hair color have been made to dye their hair darker, in order to conform with school codes. That is conformity for conformity's sake and it is very grating to American sensibilities.

70 sats \ 1 reply \ @Lumor 5 Aug

In Scandinavia it's the law: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

I thought the saying about the nail was Chinese, maybe it's both?

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei OP 5 Aug

Wow. Consider this in the text of how Scandinavian countries are often ranked the happiest countries, and I’m baffled!

I think there is no such proverb in Chinese to the best of my knowledge. But we do have something about how the bird that sticks out first gets shot.

70 sats \ 11 replies \ @didiplaywell 5 Aug

Speaking specifically about Argentina, prior to the arrive of Milei, trying to invest and progress was essentially looked at as a crime, and at great length even treated as such legally. Under the previous socialist regime, capitalism was to be frowned upon and so discouraged. It was common for political leaders in power to talk down about entrepreneurs. The resulting poverty of course was blamed on the evil capitalists, helping the socialist rhetoric and augmenting misconception and resentment. I have friends in my province, which is still relatively healthy ideologically, that had to emigrate here to invest, for when they tried to invest in their natal provinces, they were treated as exploiters, for the socialist rhetoric equates "entrepreneurship" to "robbing and exploiting". Any economical activity is good only if the state is in charge. Those are of course the poorest and most under-developed provinces. It's a vicious downward spiral, for "it's all the fault of people who tried to progress, for their progress can only be your ruin!". Resentment accumulated for decades, allowing some provinces as Chaco and Formosa to have no distinction from a distopic african warlord feud. I have seen it myself and it's surreal. The difference is however stark against productive provinces like mine, where such scenes are unthinkable, but they allowed us to be productive because our work is used to maintain the other provinces feuds and thus captive votes. It's a machiavellian scheme. Milei success was only possible thanks to the youth of those provinces, who broke the decades long generational resentment, which Milei was successful at turning towards the true culprit: socialism.

All of that's to say: what you pointed out was until recent years mixed, 50/50 aprox. Now Milei is turning the balance in favour of progress.

41 sats \ 10 replies \ @cryotosensei OP 5 Aug

Thanks for typing this detailed and compelling account. This reminds me of the different lands in Hunger Games.

Are you still involved with Milei’s mission in any way?

70 sats \ 9 replies \ @didiplaywell 5 Aug

I'm of course! Will never stop being involved now. A reason I'm here in SN sharing this testimonies is because it's part of said cause to give the "cultural battle" as Milei says. I'm not directly involved in the party I was working on any-more, I just can't do that any-more, I can't afford it at a personal level, I left aside everything for the cause years prior and during the election and paid the consequences, now I'm passing the torch on that work. But I keep a personal work on the cultural side, developing a compendium based on the notes I wrote when I was in the "trenches" so to say (distance from war is a joke but I definitely got PTSD from the experience).

61 sats \ 8 replies \ @cryotosensei OP 5 Aug

I like the phrase cultural battle. Gonna use it at some point.

Okay will post something about Chinese soon to give your mind a change in mental scenery haha

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 6 Aug

Would love to see that! 😁

20 sats \ 6 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Aug

Cultural War is more appropriate than battle

@didiplaywell, do you agree? Did war get lost in translation as battle?

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @didiplaywell 6 Aug

hmmmm... that's a good one... The literal translation of the expression "batalla cultural" is "cultural battle" ("batalla" -> "battle"). We don't use the expression "guerra cultural" (hence "cultural war", where "guerra" -> "war"). I do see that the expression "cultural battle" is not used anywhere to describe this, but the expression "cultural war" does. I'm however biased towards the term "cultural battle" even in english due to the meaning it instinctively stems from it in my mind: "battle" brings the idea of "face to face" and "day-to-day" struggle, while "war" seems to get lost at a bigger scale. "battle" is also an everyday thing where each leads to the next, while "war" seems to entice the (wrong) idea that there's an end.

I know this is convoluted but I'm just breaking down the subconscious reason "cultural battle" makes more sense to me, having a native spanish background mindset. Do you feel "cultural war" brings up the correct mindset from your native perspective? That's the final, uncontestable test.

40 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Aug

I think they mean the same thing except words and phrases get lost in translation

In USA, no one says "culture battle". People say "culture wars".

Sounds like in Argentina, it is the opposite: "batalla cultural" vs "guerra cultural"

Let me do some quick research...

edit: There is no wikipedia entry for "culture battle" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war

Using Brave search AI: Based on the provided search results, here are some common English translations for "batalla cultural":

Cultural war: This translation is often used to describe a conflict or struggle between different cultural groups, ideologies, or values.
Battle of ideas: This phrase emphasizes the intellectual or ideological aspects of a cultural conflict, highlighting the competition of ideas and beliefs.
Cultural struggle: This translation conveys a sense of resistance or opposition to cultural forces, such as globalization, imperialism, or dominant cultural norms.
Ideological battle: This phrase emphasizes the role of ideology in shaping cultural conflicts, highlighting the clash of beliefs and values.
Cultural fight: This translation is more informal and emphasizes the competitive or adversarial nature of cultural conflicts.

Examples of sentences using these translations:

"The cultural war between traditionalists and modernizers has been ongoing for decades." "The battle of ideas between liberal and conservative thinkers has shaped the country's cultural landscape." "The cultural struggle against globalization has led to a resurgence of local identities and traditions." "The ideological battle between secular and religious forces has defined the country's cultural politics."

"The cultural fight between different ethnic groups has been a longstanding issue in the region."

Note that the nuances of these translations may vary depending on the context in which they are used.

A "guerra cultural" refers to a conflict or struggle between different cultural groups, ideologies, or values, often characterized by intense debate, polarization, and sometimes, social unrest. In English, this concept is commonly translated as:

Culture War Cultural Struggle Ideological Conflict Value Clash

This phenomenon can manifest in various areas, such as:

Free speech debates: disagreements over the limits and protections of free expression Social and political issues: conflicts over topics like abortion, immigration, feminism, or religious beliefs Media representation: disputes over the portrayal of different cultures, identities, or lifestyles in the media

In some cases, the term "guerra cultural" might also imply a sense of moral or ideological superiority, where one side seeks to impose its values on others, leading to a more adversarial tone.

Key aspects to consider:

The struggle is often symbolic, with each side trying to assert its cultural identity and values It can involve a power imbalance, with dominant groups seeking to maintain their influence or impose their beliefs on others The conflict can be fueled by misunderstandings, stereotypes, or a lack of empathy between cultural groups

By understanding the concept of "guerra cultural" and its English translations, we can better navigate and address the complex issues arising from cultural differences and conflicts.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 6 Aug

Let me do some quick research

No need to! If this is the first thing that comes to your mind then I'm certain it's the right way to express this. When such short expressions are used, meaning is all about context and first reflexes, so what you said, before researching any further, is actual proof that's the proper way.

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49 sats \ 2 replies \ @didiplaywell 6 Aug

Good catch! The best one is then "Ideological battle", as per my conditioned perception, what do that one immediately brings to your mind? The shorter the expression, the shorter the insight must be, to the point that a two worded expression is conditioned to the immediate reaction it causes.

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49 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Aug

This got me to reflect on my own country. In Singlish, we actually have a phrase called spoil market. We use it disparagingly on people who set the bar so high that the rest of us commoners cannot keep up. Sometimes, it’s said in jest, but other times, it is said as a warning for over-zealous associates not to supersede everyone else.

What is a common example of spoil market?
People who set the bar of material possessions too high?

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @cryotosensei OP 5 Aug

So I made this poster to encourage some boys who might just make it into the national finals. My colleagues might think that I spoil market because it’s something novel that no one else in my school has done

https://m.stacker.news/43666

49 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 5 Aug

Does spoil market apply to grades or test scores in school?

Are students ranked in Singapore 🇸🇬?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei OP 5 Aug

If a nerdy student declines all social outings because he wants to hit the books, we can jeer at him and say how he spoil market.

Yes we are ranked. All sixth graders take a national exam, after which the top students gain entry to the best secondary schools. There has been a concerted effort to lessen the stresses arising from such competition in recent years, but parents who grew up under a competitive system find it hard to let go of grades

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Aug

How is this ethos different from communism: everyone must end up in the same place?

One person has IQ 180 Another person has IQ 90

High bar is easier for more intelligent person