Bitcoin, as a bitcoiner, is a really lonely place sometimes \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Bitcoin, as a bitcoiner, is a really lonely place sometimes

10.5k sats \ 18 comments \ @028559d218 4h bitcoin

Bitcoin. Not crypto. Not 'blockchain' technology. Not 'this technology'. Not 'innovation' - at Coinbase or Consensys - although I respect what Coinbase is doing with Lightning now...

Why is this taking so long to get right? Why is it so hard to understand that a 'blockchain' with no nodes and no decentralized users to run them.... is NOT a blockchain. It's a centralized server. While even call it a 'blockchain' at all? A blockchain without decentralized nodes might as well be "run on a 500$ website" (quoting J Song)

How many plebs or pleb-like users run Tether/USDT nodes? How about Tron nodes? Or Cardano nodes? or Algorand or countless other ******** nodes? To say nothing about memecoins or the next pepecoinfrogrocket tokens that are created in significant numbers each day.

The 4th largest token on coinmarketcap is... the BNB token which is a centralized token created by an exchange. Can plebs and users run their own BNB nodes, resist change to the protocol, and make sure it's decentralized? If not it is scandalous... How can an exchange create and run their own tokens, sell other tokens, and avoid conflicts of interest?

And tokens that aren't decentralized, not to mention not proof-of-work can't be:

nation-state resistant
resistant to change or
a good store of value long-term.

A 'blockchain' needs nodes run by many users with diverse incentives... nodes that are the heart of soul of a 'blockchain' and without decentralized nodes and LOTS of them run by fanatical users it's all just a big scam.

How is this a secret somehow - and why are there so few places to spend Bitcoin?

I've got a few sats to spend, I run my own lightning node (LND) it's easy to do and yet... ¯_ (ツ)_/¯ There's Stacker News, Nostr maybe... but it's like hey here's a 10-sat zap for your comment it's really really niche. I rarely (if ever) use Twitter and I don't like it... still why can't Twitter somehow integrate with Lightning?

I would much rather that bitcoin be transactional, with places to spend and earn sats, than the number-go-up. If more people want to use Bitcoin as 'better money' (because it essentially is) especially through lightning then the price will "go up" as there is only so much Bitcoin available. However one has to go out of their way to 'use' Bitcoin right now... and Nostr and SN, as awesome as they are right now are limited/for a very niche audience.

Like a lot of people/hodlers here I've 'made money' owning bitcoin - you know the usual yada yada number-go-up BS but honestly who cares. I refuse to sell any and have NEVER sold a single sat on an exchange. Not one sat. Instead I want to spend it directly and purchase goods and services that I need at good businesses that provide value and yet... ¯_ (ツ)_/¯ Where are the businesses? Businesses period (that provide good value or don't)

I look at btcmap.org when I get a chance to travel are there are very few places in most cities that accept Bitcoin. There are a few exception cities (Big ones in the US and Europe) but even then it's very limited. Or it's like 'Bob's pest control' and if I don't need pest control then ¯_ (ツ)_/¯

Bitcoin is about more than price and lightning works (yes it is NOT perfect but overall it does what's required). I am NOT a technical ie heavy-command line user but even I can monkey-up an LND node no command-line-required and send/receive sats for cheap.

Where is everyone?

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Kontext 58m

I hear ya & feel ya. Things are moving in the right direction, albeit slowly. Just a few years ago we didn't even have nostr, SN and Fountain (just to name a few examples) to do V4V properly. Now we're getting there, but we are still on the fringes. The businesses are also coming, but not because fiat businesses are pivoting to Bitcoin. Because Bitcoiners are starting their own. The old system will not fix itself from within. We have the option to outcompete them with a whole new monetary system as the foundation.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 1h

There's a good point here. Do bitcoiners create competitive products and services? Or are we just waiting for someone to accept our sats?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @AJ1992 2h

Maybe if you realized that Bitcoin wasn't perfect, could learn from some of the other blockchains, and could use some updating especially on the on-chain side, then it wouldn't be so lonely. Bitcoin will never replace fiat when it has flaws that fiat doesn't have and it's benefits most people don't care about.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @028559d218 OP 2h

maybe monero has some benefits but even then I'm not so sure. The other blockchains don't compare. For money to have value it needs to require energy to create... otherwise it's just back to the same problems as government money/fiat.

The other proofofwork chains do not compare and have not for years (bch/bsv etc)

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @AJ1992 2h

You missed the point or you're truly immersed in the Darth coin cult. Bitcoin IS NOT PERFECT. Thinking it's perfect and acting like it is #1 is a disservice and #2 turns people off when you're trying to orange pill them. There's always room to improve. Why would people want to pay an always changing, high (in comparison to other payment methods or cryptos) fees to transact when they can transact with fiat for free? Why would they want to wait who knows how long or if ever their tx will be confirmed when with other payment methods or cryptos it is confirmed instantly or almost instantly? And don't say lightning solves these issues because lightning has its own issues. Genuine questions.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 1h

'Other blockchains' with very few exceptions (maybe monero but I'm not even sure about that) go to zero. There is zero reason for them to exist as Bitcoin communicates, sends, receives and stores money already. Blockchains that are proof of stake (most of them) cannot compete with proof of work because it's 'value out of thin air'. There is no energy or material cost to creating their value or network. Look at how ethereum has fared since the 'merge' ie transition to proof of stake. It has been a downward slope, exchange-rate wise relative to Bitcoin ever since.

And yes you are correct Bitcoin is not perfect. But it is by-far-no-comparison the best blockchain. Most security, most decentralization, best transaction finality, best hardware and software wallet support, best price performance (by far), best name brand appeal best regulatory status and clarity everything really of all the PoW (necessary) offerings.

Again Bitcoin is NOT perfect it takes education to use currently with the current UI, the fee rate is variable (as it will be inevitably) but it is the digitization of sound money and nothing comes anywhere close to its network effects.

By using Stacker News you are essentially using lightning. Custodial lightning, non-custodial, semi-custodial (like via Phoenix Wallet which I really like) it's still all lightning. Lightning is REALLY fast and REALLY cheap to use even when on-chain fees are high. For example some stacker very graciously zapped me 10000 sats for this post (for which I'm extremely grateful)... and I withdrew 5000 of those sats for a fee of less than 7 sats? (Which is like half a penny currently).

A friend reached out to me a few moments ago who is trying to fund a lightning channel, get it set up. Sent those same sats to him for a fee of... .47 Sats yes that's half a sat. That's through my OWN lightning node, non-custodial, using a node-out-of-the-box and I am not a technical user.

No other blockchain has those same balance of characteristics and network effects... saying that the others 'compare' in my opinion is intellectually dishonest. This way Bitcoin can be for everyone.

Peer to peer money? Check Long term savings? Check Anonymity (albeit with privacy tools like coinjoins) Very doable Money for wallstreet and the suits? Definitely Good for 'stranded energy' and the economizing of the energy infrastructure? Sure Open source with tons of code review/good developers? Yes also.

What's missing from Bitcoin imo is the education... as to what it is and what real-world problems it solves (monetary debasement and repression) and finally the capitulation from all the other 'cryptos'. I believe they go to zero over the long term because who wants to use the 'second-best' given the choice? Lightning, with education, is crazy fast and can be used crazy-cheap while on-chain is secure enough for billion-dollar hedge funds. It works for everyone.

The 'maximalism' sometimes isn't really well articulated and there's a ton of noise on places like Twitter (stay off it) but there are really meaningful reasons why Bitcoin is the best at what it does. Money for everyone separate from the state for the long term. This was a really long response but you asked for one and I take those responses seriously.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @yoshi 2h

Normies in the western world don’t like having to think about things.

Bitcoin will have to chosen for them and they will miss the majority of appreciation along the way sadly.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 2h

I understand. Although it pretty much is right out in the open now though? Although in my opinion twitter doesn't help (that's why I deleted it). Too much noise without really being helpful most of the time.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 2h

My cousin was impressed by the speed and low fees of on chain transaction. I didn’t mention lightning or liquid

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DesertDave 4h

It's really difficult feeling like I have been given a beautiful solution to most of the problems people talk about... And they just won't listen.

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 OP 3h

I rarely if ever mention to Bitcoin to people, outside of 1 or 2 close family members. And they probably think I'm a little crazy LOL.

The few people I mentioned it to in my peer group one said "I don't do that" another laughed One said he bought 10$ of Bitcoin (good for him) but said he liked shiba inu so ¯_ (ツ)_/¯

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave 3h

Yeah. I have given up with my closest friends and family. What's funny, is I feel like newer connections I have made are more open to it.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DesertDave 4h

If you build it, they will come... Or so I have heard. I am so ready. I have felt lonely here for 7 years now.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 3h

Hang in there. It seems like slowly slowly the powers that be are figuring out what Bitcoin is. There is a ways to go but the solution is definitely out there for people.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @mbrochh1 4h

Start a bitcoin maxinalist meetup in your town. You will meet amazing people and it will lead to great opportunities.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 4h

I'm working on that. I live in a small town right now basically... so I'm not sure there would be a lot of traction. Looking to move, which would definitely help with the loneliness.

There are also, in my opinion, some privacy concerns with this that I haven't fully thought through yet. Not sure I want to be 'the bitcoiner' is a small town LOL

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Satosora 4h

Everyone is still catching up. For the normal person, bitcoin is bitcoin. Lightning doesnt mean anything to them.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 4h

Bitcoin taken to its logical conclusions... involves some kind of 2nd or 3rd layers like lightning. I don't know it seems logical to me ¯_ (ツ)_/¯

I just hope/wonder that we're on an upward trajectory - I mean I think we are but it's important to discuss the big picture some days.