Darthcoin might be an OG Stacker, but I dont trust. I read FAQ. Is Darth WRONG?!
Yesterday I got into it with @Darthcoin about Attached Bitcoin Wallets #714773 and he dropped on me this SN bombshell. But do I trust an OG Stacker like him? No!
#715132 “upvoting with 1 sat or 1000 is the same in terms of reputation and "hot". The amount of sats you zap is just your personal appreciation to the OP.” -@Darthcoin
Excuse me Darth, but have you even read @k00b FAQ at the footer? Do Zaps Help Content Rank Higher? Yes. The ranking of an item is affected by:
  • the amount a stacker zaps a post or comment
  • the trust of the stacker making the zap
  • the time elapsed since the creation of the item Zapping an item with more sats amplifies your trust, giving you more influence on an item's ranking. However, the relationship between sats contributed and a stacker's influence on item ranking is not linear, it's logarithmic. The effect a stacker's zap has on an item's ranking is trust*log10(total zap amount) where 10 sats = 1 vote, 100 sats = 2, 1000 sats = 3, and so on ... all values in between are valid as well. To make this feature sybil resistant, SN now takes 10% of zaps and re-distributes them to the SN community as part of the daily rewards.
Furthermore from the FAQ… How Does Stacker News Rank Content? Stacker News uses sats alongside a Web of Trust to rank content and deter Sybil attacks. As explained here, stackers can send zaps to each other by clicking the lightning bolt next to a post or comment. The zap amounts are one factor that helps determine which content ranks highest on the site, and are weighted by how much the stacker sending the zap is trusted. The Stacker News ranking algorithm works as follows:
  • The number of stackers who have zapped an item
  • Multiplied by the product of the trust score of each stacker and the log value of sats zapped
  • Divided by a power of the time since a story was submitted
  • Plus the boost divided by a larger power (relative to un-boosted ranking) of the time since a story was submitted The comments made within a post are ranked the same way as top-level Stacker News posts.
So I will continue to give @TheWildHustle the blue lightning bolt and zap 1000 sats to give the equivalent of 3 votes. His proof of work music has earned it! Every sat past 1 is NOT “The Dead Zone” but the Wild West, cowboy 🤠 #714679
Keep up with the memes tho! 🫡
“should I always remind you all that sats are scarce?” -@Darthcoin #715235
You want to be a little careful here, because "hot" and "top" are ranked differently. Hot is your personalized feed, while top is the global ranking.
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Does the # of sats you zap make an impact on the “top” global ranking?
Or is any amount zap the same as any other zap? Is a 1 sat zap the same as 1000 sats?
Does it behave differently for “hot?”
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I believe "top" is what you were describing.
Hot seems to have a shorter time-horizon and uses your actual trust scores with other stackers for the rankings, rather than stackers' average trust scores. I believe it does also take into account the number of sats zapped.
That's what I understand from various conversations with k00b and ek, anyways.
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This makes sense to me, thank you!
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33 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 9 Oct
someone paid attention in the last weeks
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22 sats \ 2 replies \ @Asara 9 Oct
Hot has become hyper annoying to me. I am constantly seeing posts from last year in it.
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That's interesting. You've been here longer than me, so it's not some newcomer glitch.
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You’re welcome to browse top, where the amount of sats zapped actually DOES help indicate its value, more than just number of unique cowboys who zapped
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“No offense, but…”
Either @DarthCoin is right and @k00b has to update the FAQ, or his understanding of the SN algo is wrong!
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114 sats \ 24 replies \ @k00b 9 Oct
The more sats you zap, the more votes it tallies.
Back when Darth joined, it didn't work this way. But for about 2 years now, it's worked this way.
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21 sats \ 4 replies \ @Cje95 9 Oct
Quick question does the being early part still matter?
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11 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 9 Oct
It matters in terms of rewards - yes.
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Ahh, that's how TheWildHustle was buttering his bread.
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IT’s SO EARLY!
That’s what @TheWildHustle says when he browses “recent” to butter his bread 🤣
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It was his lifestyle for a year. He would wait for bangers while warming his butter knife.
You are contradicting yourself. I can't find it right now the saloon comment, when I asked you precisely about this: what happen if I zap first 100 sats a post and then came back and zap again another amount. Your answer was clear: it doesn't matter, only the first zap matter. All the rest are just more sats to OP.
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The more sats you zap, the more votes it tallies.
Doesn't seems so. As far I watched all the posts and comments, no matter how much sats you zap to an item, it shows the same as "voters" and rank to top posts.
If is as you say, you mislead me many times when I asked you how the amount of sats are influencing the ranking of a post zapped.
From FAQ:
Do Zaps Help Content Rank Higher? Yes. The ranking of an item is affected by: the amount a stacker zaps a post or comment the trust of the stacker making the zap the time elapsed since the creation of the item Zapping an item with more sats amplifies your trust, giving you more influence on an item's ranking. However, the relationship between sats contributed and a stacker's influence on item ranking is not linear, it's logarithmic. The effect a stacker's zap has on an item's ranking is trust*log10(total zap amount) where 10 sats = 1 vote, 100 sats = 2, 1000 sats = 3, and so on ... all values in between are valid as well. To make this feature sybil resistant, SN takes 30% of zaps and re-distributes them to territory founders and the SN community as part of the daily rewards.
So again, 100 sats are NOT 100 votes. I stand my ground: no matter how many sats you zap, it will not influence more the ranking of a post.
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"voters" is not the same as "votes"
One voter can cast many votes.
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Again you are misleading in answers. Just few weeks ago I asked you about how is influencing if I zap 100 sats and then came back and zap again 100 sats the same post. You said, that it doesn't matter. It matters only the first zap.
I just made a test with your comment, zapping twice 1 sats. It says "from 0 stackers / 2 from me". So where are the "voters" separately ?
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1038 sats \ 14 replies \ @k00b 9 Oct
Here's the comment: #683684
You asked:
Not related to this debate, but came to my mind something and wanted to ask you about. If I zap a post, let's say I am the 1st one, with 100 sats. I also comment first. Then after a while, after I wait until more are coming to comment and zap, I zap again same post let's say 1000 sats. Then after a while again 2000 sats. Is this affecting the algo for the OP and for me ? I am just curious how this plays out. You know I am not interested in gainz...
I said:
For the OP, it's the same either way. For you, the late zaps are less eligible for rewards than your earlier ones.
You asked about zap timing, not sats, in a thread discussing rewards, not ranking. My answer to your question in that thread addresses the effect of zap timing on the reward "algo."
I might've misunderstood your question. You might've misunderstood my answer.
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I might've misunderstood your question. You might've misunderstood my answer.
maybe
Is this the algo? (from github)
SELECT id, row_number() OVER (ORDER BY ((GREATEST("weightedVotes", POWER("weightedVotes", 1.2)) + "weightedComments"/2) / POWER(GREATEST(3, EXTRACT(EPOCH FROM (now_utc() - created_at))/3600), 1.3) + (boost/5000::float) / POWER(EXTRACT(EPOCH FROM (now_utc() - created_at))/3600+2, 2.6)) DESC NULLS LAST, id DESC) as rank FROM "Item" WHERE "parentId" IS NULL AND NOT bio AND "pinId" IS NULL AND "deletedAt" IS NULL AND "weightedVotes" > 0 ORDER BY ((GREATEST("weightedVotes", POWER("weightedVotes", 1.2)) + "weightedComments"/2) / POWER(GREATEST(3, EXTRACT(EPOCH FROM (now_utc() - created_at))/3600), 1.3) + (boost/5000::float) / POWER(EXTRACT(EPOCH FROM (now_utc() - created_at))/3600+2, 2.6)) DESC NULLS LAST, id DESC LIMIT 2100;
Well I am not sure how he can argue with this... Do love how he blamed the algorithm lmao!
Sounds like he is getting into political talking points!
I was always under the impression that more generous zapping mattered as well as being early, but I believe @k00b recently indicated that it was not the case. The topic came up a few weeks ago when an account seemed to be gaming the system with single sat zaps.
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44 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 9 Oct
If I did indicate that I didn’t mean to. The faq is correct.
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The algo is wrong and misleading. This post got 1384 sats from 14 stackers. But nobody knows how many real votes (not sats) got. Test for yourself with a test post. Zap it several times, from several accounts and try to count for yourself the "votes".
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2 sats \ 1 reply \ @Cje95 9 Oct
Ah yes blame the code blame the math for not mathing! Sounding like quiet a government fan over here Darth! Very proud to see you bend the knee!
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I mean you can’t blame yourself. What’s the expression? “Stack sats, losers are humble”
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I guess the best way to find out is to f around with the posts and system a little bit. In my experience if you f around you always find out, one way or another. It is up to you to keep your eyes and mind open. Just breath!!! Be in the NOW.
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BUT I WANT TO KNOW NOWW!!
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Great, just breathe, relax and focus on your nostrils. It will come to you.
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Things are heating up 🍿
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Is it escalating quickly??
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Quickly is an understatement 🎢
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What’s the next turn on this roller coaster??🎢
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➰ loopy loop
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At the time, l had thought this was a bit weird. 1 sat doing all the work, but its getting clarified.
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Feel free to zap 100, 1000, or 10000 sats! Each color lightning bolt does signify how many upvotes you are really sending! Want more of this type of content? 🙏
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If you are here for the "ranking" You are in the wrong place...imho
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my watching how stackers argue about zap quality...
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Spicy meta action to start your morning 🤣
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I see you have been initiated. Getting into it with Darth is what takes you from a rookie to regular stacker. Haha
I remember calling Darth an ass my first week on SN. I like Darth by the way.
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Ha! “Look ma! @grayruby says I made it!”
I can tell he and I are gonna be friends 😈
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I generally describe Darth as a frenemy. Haha
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11 sats \ 4 replies \ @Cje95 9 Oct
I love how Darth's responses are going after someone who helped make it in an attempt to "prove" he is right truly a masterclass in dumbassery
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Darth is gonna Darth. He writes great guides and wants the best for bitcoin, lightning and SN.
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Yes he does, and I’m grateful for @DarthCoin!
I don’t need influencer cheerleaders. I need people who care how Bitcoin, lightning, and SN actually work 🫡
Stay decentralized!
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Cje95 9 Oct
Agreed this is just the first time I have ever seen him wrong before so the scramble has been entertaining to say the least lol
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Wow! Clearly it’s so early for SN if it’s finally the first time someone got em 😈
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Lol, Shots fired.
Bonus points for not trusting and verifying.
Never paid attention to the ranking system, so reading the above was pretty informative.
Gotta give the OG's their respect and credit while not blindly following.
And thanks for the blue Lightning, I'm working on revamping "Animal Bus" I'll throw in something for the dog.
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Fuck that guy
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I love to see someone take on Darth!
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My opening salvo 🫡
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Well I will be checking in on the developments! Push come to shove just tell him he's acting like he works for the government he LOVESSSS the government!
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“That sounds like something someone from the govt would say, Darth…”
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1 sat \ 1 reply \ @Cje95 9 Oct
Ah there you are bud!!! Love how you keep the picture of me it means a lot <3
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You live rent free in his mind!
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