Do you OWN your name ? \ stacker news ~AskSN

1396 sats \ 69 comments \ @DarthCoin 16h AskSN

I think that all posts in "AskSN" territory should be with a bounty.

So this time I will raise the bounty for this important question, to see if stackers really know the truth about these aspects. The right answer will be rewarded, but I want to see a good explanation.

Additional question: is there a law that force you to have a name?

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30 sats \ 3 replies \ @flat24 10h

Wow!! This is a great question, I honestly don't know how to answer. But this question opens a new rabbit hole inside my brain 🧠. For a while now, I've had a certain idea floating around in my head, what's going on with my first and last name? And if I want to change it, what should I do? Is it possible? Who other than my mother forces me to keep my first and last name?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @0371279ce5 4h

"Legally," within the US jurisdiction, the thing that is forcing you to keep "your" first and last name is the fact that you keep using those as "your" name. It all started when you received you birth certificate, then your driver's license, your bank account, etc. You are using an identity of "theirs" for "benefits" (licenses, permits, accounts, etc) that ultimately they control. The more benefits you use, the more easily you prove "your" identity. Typically, stolen identity cases are not always easy to prosecute.

The same thing could be done with different identifying documents. If you found a birth certificate that was nearly the same age as you are (or, as you think you are since you are not aware of the actual date of your own birth due to lack of mental capacity) and did not already have someone using it, you could start over again with that identity.

As I said in my other comment, I recommend people read The Paper Trip Series. They can be bought all at once or one at a time.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 10h

But this question opens a new rabbit hole inside my brain

That's why I ask it here, to make people THINK. I want to see if anyone is getting closer to the answer. The answer is indeed quite complicated and not so many know it well.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 9h

I will be attentive to the outcome of this publication

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @0371279ce5 14h

Depends on what you're calling your name.

If you mean your "legal identity" - of course not. The State owns the "person" created at your birth, hence why it's stamped with the name of that state. That "person" is a tool used to operate within the "system" of the United States, hence why you must use "your" name when applying to anything and everything. There's no way, outside of you acting like that name and using it everywhere, to attach a birth certificate or any other identifying information to a human being. In a way, you're acting as surety for that identity. It didn't used to be this way.

It is also possible to change your identity. It's called "Paper Tripping" and I recommend everyone read the Paper Trip series which can be purchased through Eden Press.

Outside of that, a name is just an appelation. I can call myself whatever I want. It doesn't mean I own the sounds used in the creation of that appelation.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

Very close to the final answer. You are a good candidate for the bounty.

I can call myself whatever I want

I like that, good point.

Let's say you want to take ownership of that given name, from the govID. To be yours, to prove it is your property. Do you know how you can do that and show to any gov that you, the living man, are the owner of that corporation name ?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0371279ce5 14h

I don't want to be the owner. I know someone who protected himself from prosecution for growing marijuana, surrounded by others doing the same, and he is the only one that avoided it by showing that he is not owner of the name and merely "uses" it within their system. It is "their" name and "their" identity, given to him at birth, to use.

It was not easy to prove, but he did it.

Much like I may use/drive a car, that does not make me a car. I also may "use" a name, but that does not mean that I am that name.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @south_korea_ln 14h

My attempt at an answer, for the fun of the intellectual challenge and to see if i understand darth after reading him for so long.

A name is not something you possess like an object. Rather, it's a label assigned, often without your consent, at birth. This label is a tool, used by others to identify you within societal constructs, but it does not define or control you as an individual.

As for a law forcing you to have a name, no natural law would mandate this, as natural law principles revolve around inherent rights and duties derived from human nature itself. Naming is a societal imposition, typically enforced by legal systems for administrative ease: tracking people, creating records, and imposing obligations. But if you believe in sovereignty, you would argue that any authority requiring you to have a name only has power over you if you consent to it. In the eyes of a true sovereign individual, you are not bound by any law or system you haven't explicitly agreed to. The name might exist on paper, but it does not hold power over your essence or autonomy unless you allow it.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

You are close to the whole answer. But you stopped at the entrance, didn't go further.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @south_korea_ln 14h

I'll be curious to read the rest...

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 12h

You can pay someone to threaten people if they use a name you've claimed for yourself, that's trademark law.

You can pay for (or be gifted) unique recognition by other 3rd parties (icann domains, twitter handles etc), but ownership is just an abstraction over their opinion

Decentralized name-systems are therefore only viable as a WoT metric

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @B_for_Bitcoin 15h

Cool idea this bounty thing. But last time you didn’t pay the bounty. 😂 #746465

20 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 15h

check again. It will be paid ONLY to the right answers. If nobody give the right answer... it will stay open like forever.

121 sats \ 2 replies \ @poe7645 14h

Darth verifying the answer is correct before bounty payout.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 13h

hahahaha good meme

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @poe7645 5h

I think the Galaxy might be a bit far but it's all I got for the context 😂

19 sats \ 18 replies \ @Aardvark 15h

I don't own my name in the physical sense, but I do have rights associated with my name. Only people with the same name as me have the right to use it for identification,

I also have the right to control how my name is used in terms of protecting my reputation slander/liable.

And no, I don't think there are any laws that force you to have a name, although I don't know how well you'd be able to participate in society without one.

10 sats \ 17 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 15h

although I don't know how well you'd be able to participate in society without one.

Is there any law that force me to "participate in a society" ?

0 sats \ 13 replies \ @nullama 15h

Usually, yes, but it's opt-in.

When a person is born, the parents usually register the baby in the country.

That makes the new person participate in a society as a citizen of that country. The parents have to sign a legal document to make it so.

Of course it was not the decision of the baby in this case, and the baby can, at some point in the future, if they decide to, remove their own citizenship.

Unless you were born in Argentina, which is the only country that doesn't allow the removal of their citizenship.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lux 14h

a person is born

with a signature

0 sats \ 11 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

What is a "citizenship" ?

When a person is born, the parents usually register the baby in the country.

Is not this a violation of a basic right, freedom of association?

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @nullama 14h

Is not this a violation of a basic right, freedom of association?

In the example above, the guardians of the baby made a decision for that person.

The baby, when older, is free to disassociate from that country and join another one, or do as they please.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

So, in other words that forced "association" without consent became null, void. In other words, nobody can force you to do anything without your consent, right?

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @nullama 14h

It's not forced.

The parents are the legal guardians of the child, so for all intents and purposes it is the same as if the child decided to become a citizen themselves.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

The parents are the legal guardians of the child

Why do you keep saying "legal" and not "natural" ? What is the meaning of the word "parent" ?

view replies

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @nullama 14h

"a membership and allegiance to a sovereign state"

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

Can a state be sovereign? Who is this "State" ?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @nullama 14h

Can a state be sovereign?

Yes. A sovereign state is a state that has authority over a territory.

Who is this "State" ?

There are hundreds of different states currently in the world, each one of them with different rules. For example, in some of them you don't get citizenship by simply being born there, you need to have extra requirements, like your parents being permanent residents or citizens themselves first.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

a state that has authority over a territory.

And WHO gives that authority to a state? What does it means the word "authority" ?

reply on another page

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Aardvark 15h

No, you can't legally be forced to participate in society. I would argue that the current laws make it very difficult to opt out of society and retain a high quality of life though.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 15h

legally be forced

Another term that is ambiguous. How can you be "forced" by a law (aka contract) that you never consent it?

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 15h

That's easy. Someone with a bigger stick than you decides what the law is, and if you break it, they hit you with that stick. Whoever has the biggest stick makes the laws.

You can certainly argue about the morality of how laws are created and enforced, but i wouldn't argue too much with the guy holding the stick 😉

10 sats \ 8 replies \ @mrsu 13h

A name is an idea. It exists in peoples heads. People know my name because they either decided to give me that name (I.e. my parents ) or because someone told them my name . if a name is an idea, or just a thought in peoples heads, can it be property?

I'd say no, its not possible for anyone to own your name, as I don't think thoughts can be property.

Additionally, just because the state enforces us to identify In a certain way, doesn't mean that's our actual name. The name people use to refer to me is totally different from the formal name the state uses to identify me. That's not my name.

No one owns my name.

33 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 10h

I don't think thoughts can be property.

Why not? If we trademark whatever bullshit why don't you copyright your name and became the owner of it, with papers that you can show to any gov: "hey, I own this name, you can't use it without my CONSENT and approval on any of your govIDs".

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0371279ce5 4h

Many people have done that and I have watched them still fail over and over.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @mrsu 8h

Not sure I see your point. You already have a formal name assigned to you by the state. This is a part of your identity as a citizen. This is not necessarily the same as the name you are known by.

Your 'real' name Is the name that real people around you know you by. As that is a thought or 'meme' that exists in the collective consciousness of the people that know you, then there is nothing to own.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 8h

You already have a formal name assigned to you by the state

You are wrong. That is a name assigned to a vessel, a dead body, to a CORPORATION, not to a living man. That state do no deal with living men, only with corporations.

My question wasn't by far about any "legal name" bullshit or something like that. Please take you time and real ALL these amazing pill by Lux here: #586916 Maybe like that you will understand better why I asked that question.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @mrsu 7h

You need to reread my response. I'm of the position that the formal 'name' you are assigned by the state isn't your actual name. Your real name exists in the collective consciousness of the people that know you, therefore it is more like a thought or a meme.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 7h

I read it very well. I do not understand why do you go back to the state. What have to do the state with my name ?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mrsu 4h

Clearly you didn't as you seem to miss the point. Read it in context of your previous reply. Is English your first language?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 13h

this, while not being @DarthCoin's "right" answer, is at least the most based one.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BTCLNAT 4h

You own the name YOU choose, not the one imposed on you.

Having a name is a right, not an obligation.

It is not a crime NOT to have a name because there is NO law that prohibits it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ch0k1 9h

If “ownership” implies choice or agency, then most of us didn't truly "own" our names initially. They were given to us without our consent, and we often grow into them as labels rather than consciously choosing them.

In a practical sense, the name assigned at birth is more like an identifier that links us to legal rights, responsibilities, and records. It’s a part of our legal identity rather than something we “own” in a personal or autonomous way.

However, legally speaking, your name functions as an anchor point for your identity within society. So even though you might not “own” it in a traditional sense, it becomes part of your identity that you have the right to use, change, or protect, especially if you do later choose to adopt it fully.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Roll 10h

There isn't a specific law that universally requires individuals to have a name, but names are a fundamental part of legal identity in many societies. Most legal systems require individuals to have a name for purposes such as identification, legal documentation, and civil rights. For example, when registering a birth, a name is typically required for the birth certificate. Additionally, having a name is important for various legal processes, such as obtaining a driver's license, passport, or other forms of identification.

In some cultures, individuals may have the option to choose their names or change them, but the existence of a name is generally necessary for legal and administrative purposes.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @softglitter2d 11h

TLDR: Yes, there are laws that require you to have a name since it's considered a first-generation right, but enforcing it can conflict with personal freedom.

Now, let’s expand on this:

The word "name" we use comes from the Latin nomen, which also derives from nominis, meaning designation. The early Indo-Europeans wanted to distinguish each other, so they started labeling things or people. We use names to characterize and identify a person.

In legal terms, names have historical functions:

They allow us to identify individuals and their origin. For example, Darthcoin of Tatooine isn’t the same as Darthcoin of Coruscant. Even if there are two Darthcoins in the known universe, we differentiate by nomen, in this case, of planets or places.
Names convey attributes: Humans often attribute magical qualities to names (Harari discusses this extensively in Sapiens), and names can carry those attributes. Examples that come to mind are Pepin the Short, Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great. Royal names like Juan Carlos of Spain, Charles of England, or Charles III are used to distinguish one from another.
Names reinforce the person-community bond, as humans are inherently social. Function 1 highlights this point again.
They facilitate communication, which is obvious. Try communicating without names. The mental image of that scenario is quite funny.

Why did naming start being enforced?

There’s no simple answer, but over the years, emperors and feudal lords needed to label those under their rule to collect taxes. We see this in Sumerian and Mesopotamian tablets, Egyptian hieroglyphs, and Roman censuses. Now, having looked at the historical function of names, we ask: is it necessary to have one?

Usually, names are chosen by legal guardians, such as parents. Many people see this as an imposition, and indeed, the State today allows people to reject their birth names and choose another as a reflection of personal autonomy.

This is where social responsibility comes in. The laws originating thousands of years ago require each individual to act according to their individual obligations. Without this, it would be impossible to assign you legal rights and obligations. In matters of inheritance or crime, having an identity is the starting point.

So, do I need to have a name?

Here, I think the analysis narrows down to:

Having a name to differentiate myself from others
Having a name to claim rights and responsibilities
Having a name to exercise rights and responsibilities

This is where the State itself allows name changes but within legal limits.

So, what’s the answer? No, they cannot impose an identity on you, as identity changes over time. The real issue lies in the imposition or lack of labeling by a State. A person identifies by a name, which could change tomorrow. States tend to discourage this as it affects one of their primary tasks mentioned earlier: taxation.

Remember, according to the State, you own your country because there's a social contract.

54 sats \ 2 replies \ @Lux 10h

there are laws that require you to have a name since it's considered a first-generation right

is it a right or a requirement?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @softglitter2d 10h

Well, you could say a bunch of rights

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lux 9h

human rights are privileges

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Msd0457890 12h

I find your question very particular, my friend, @ DarthCoin which we are debating from many perspectives (due to the different comments). Certainly we are owners of our names because as thinking beings we decide so, but not because someone forces us to use it, according to UNICEF, the name is a full human right and cannot be seen as a concession. Its repercussions are as immediate at the birth of people as they are persistent in their daily lives. However, can't I call myself whatever I want, regardless of the system or state that supposedly governs that?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 13h

Fuck, no idea.

Probably there is some variation between jurisdictions. Maybe, somewhere at some time, all you had was a number(?), and the exact name/letters formally attached to it secondary.

(Technically, since these systems are digital and info is stored binary -- I guess? -- they ARE numbers and not letters)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rebel_nomad 13h

Depends on jurisdiction really, in my case I remember very well the debate and attempt to abolish the number the state assigns you that you can never delete while alive...

That was in the eighties, since then things got so totalitarian that I basically fled, and also I won't tell even you guys here what country that is, for now at least!

That is the law that will be enforced, if you choose to ignore it and still stay alive & eat of course you can then regard all of it as illegal and devoid of substance...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BTCLNAT 14h

We do not choose our name when we are born, the law requires parents to give us a name, if this is not complied with, the health and civil authorities give the baby a name since legally it has that right, to have a name. So the one we have from birth, that is imposed. We can choose to use it or not over time and that in itself does not constitute a crime, but it will not stop bringing problems in legal society.

"Having a name and a surname of one's own is a right that all girls and boys have, it is established in the General Law of the Rights of Girls, Boys and Adolescents."

"Article 18: Every person has the right to a name of one's own and to the surnames of their parents or of one of them. The law will regulate the way to ensure this right for all, through assumed names, if necessary (Organization of American States, 1969)."

Not having a name is not illegal in itself. The police won't arrest you for not having a name, but you can't legally identify yourself without one, which would make things difficult for you. For example, you need a legal name on a birth certificate or social security card to get a driver's license or passport, open a bank account, and get a job.

Under common law adopted through court decisions rather than legislative action, you can change your name without a court order simply by using it in all aspects of your life. While state laws govern how you can legally change your name, in general, Beauregard can become any Tom, Dick or Harry as long as the new nickname is not:

Intentionally confusing, such as a number
A vulgar word that could lead to fights, including racial slurs
Used with fraudulent intent, such as to avoid unpaid debts
Someone else's name with intent to misuse

Contrary to popular belief, it is not necessary to name your baby before leaving the hospital. In the absence of a name, hospitals will assign a name such as "Babygirl Smith" to your baby.

SUMMARY

WE ARE NOT OWNERS OF THE NAME THAT IS IMPOSED ON US

WE CAN OWN THE NAME OR ALIAS THAT WE CHOOSE OURSELVES

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL NOT TO USE A NAME, THERE IS NO LAW THAT FORCES US TO DO SO

We use it because of the possible civic-social repercussions, but if that doesn't matter to us, then we use the one we want, if we want to.

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @nullama 14h

No, because there are other people in the world with the same name.

Additional question: is there a law that force you to have a name?

Depends on which society you live in, but in most of them, yes, they require a name for citizenship.

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

other people in the world with the same name.

Are you sure that are people (living men, women) and not CORPORATIONS ?

Depends on which society you live in,

What if I decide to not be part of any society ? I am myself.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @nullama 14h

What if I decide to not be part of any society ? I am myself.

https://www.wikihow.com/Start-Your-Own-Country

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14h

I actually have my own country and I explain it here: #736757 in a more simple manner :)

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @nullama 14h

How many countries can you visit with your pass-port? :)

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 13h

I do not use any pass-port. That is a license to travel for citizens and mostly used for COMMERCIAL travels, where a CONTRACT is involved. Sovereign individuals do not need a license to travel. They just travel. You are your own country, wherever you are, passing through as an "ambassador" if you like it like that.

Citizen Passport

Your passport is written in all caps, meaning it is referring to your legal fiction.

The word Passport is a combination of the word “Pass” and “Port” and refers to the allowance of your corporation to travel from port to port. A stamp was issued when entering a different jurisdiction for your corporation to operate. You do not need a passport to travel.

Law Abiding Citizen

The question you should ask is “whose law?” If you don’t ask this question and blindly agree, you will find that “Law” actually refers to Legislation, and citizen is an employee with the lowest status.

Member of Society

The word Member is referring to you as having Membership. Society refers to an organization or club formed for a particular purpose or activity. If someone attempts to apply this title to you, you must ask “which society” and then ask yourself if you applied to become a member. If you accept this title then you have accepted your legal identity and have agreed to be part of a society where your status is unknown. However your status shall be of the lowest level.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @nullama 13h

So, in practice, have you ever crossed a border without a passport?

Because, even ambassadors have a passport. It's different, sure, but they need to carry a diplomatic passport to cross an international border.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 13h

What is a border? An imaginary line, right? Yes I traveled to various places, without carrying a passport.

btw, my country being my own body have very clear defined "borders", not just imaginary lines.

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bitcoiner1 15h

In the real world, there is no way you can really own something without the permission or approvement from an authority.

Your name is associated to your identity with a document from a civil registry. But, if this document is lost or destroyed, you will legally disappear....

In cyberspace (Bitcoin world), you own only if you have the keys to move that assets. No authority or Government involved.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 15h

without the permission or approvement from an authority

So what / who give that "authority" to somebody ? From where is coming the "authority" over you by somebody else? If I have such authority over you, doesn't that mean you are my slave?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitcoiner1 14h

We gave that power to them many years ago.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @024620272f4 15h

You have rights for your name in some situations, but "ownership" is depend on how and where it is used. Usually, you have right to use your name and protect it from misleading or harmful use by other peoples, specially if it's connected with your identity or reputation. In law, this is connected to privacy rights, publicity rights, and sometime trademark law.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 15h

you have right to use your name and protect it from misleading or harmful use by other peoples

So if you do not have ownership somehow over that name, how can you "protect" it? How would you achieve that ownership of a personal name, given or taken?