Where do we draw the line on free speech on stacker news? \ stacker news ~alter

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Where do we draw the line on free speech on stacker news?

863 sats \ 65 comments \ @DavidoftheDesert 1 Dec alter_native

What if someone is being a bully?

What if someone is making sock puppet accounts to boost their numbers?

What if someone is sharing about something completely inappropriate?

What about a racist?

Here is my take-

Trying to silence anyone only makes that idea stronger. It's like trying to push a ball underwater. With Bitcoin incentives and tools like zaps and downzaps, the community gets to decide what gets to be seen. This is how we govern ourselves. That's it. Everything works itself out. No need to censor ever. This is why the ~alter_native is not moderated. It doesn't need to be. We are self moderating. Everyone has a right to their own views, whether any of us like it or not. To silence that only makes it worse. If someone doesn't like what someone else says, mute them or downzap, and move on. It's so simple. If you can't handle real free speech, go back to Facebook, reddit, Twitter and the like. I like the wild west personally. Let everyone show their true colors so we all know where we stand. Isn't that why we are here, for truth?

What do you all think? Should there be a line that one can cross where an authority needs to get involved on a platform like stacker? Do territories need moderating?

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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @IamSINGLE 1 Dec

I think it's better we stay away from any such line for SN. SN is different and much much better without any lines.

Imo, every stacker should just keep doing what he's doing to provide v4v not paying attention to trolls and bullies.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

I agree. It's a slippery slope. I am intrigued by the ideas of @Turdinthepunchbowl down below. If downzaps did more.

143 sats \ 12 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 1 Dec

I agree that line of thinking. We can modify undesirable behaviors and desirable behaviors with zaps,, mutes and just plain ignoring the posts and comments we find disagreeable. If you give in to censorship, there is no end in sight. Just look at what the Biden gang has been doing to free speech.

62 sats \ 9 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Exactly. It all needs to be aired out. This is how we grow together.

606 sats \ 4 replies \ @OgFOMK 1 Dec

"Free speech is like a fart. It needs to be aired out." -- T-shirt for ~alter_native territory.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 1 Dec

I love it!! Offensive enough for a good political hat or t-shirt.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @BitcoinPilgrim 1 Dec

Even perfume mustn't be bottled. Because good things are often self-censored in a woke environment and a totalitarian dictator doesn't realize he's preventing good from happening.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Let all the ideas and smells flow freely.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Someone needs to make this happen!! Amazing. Perfect analogy.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 1 Dec

On top of that, I like to remember: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me!

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

That's right. Got to be tough in the wild west.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 1 Dec

Maybe everywhere!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

That too. I think we are trailblazers here. Helping people remember how to feel empowered..

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @oliverweiss 1 Dec

Is Musk part of the Biden gang then? 🤔🤡

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

I don't know that they are the same gang. I'm not a fan of either though.

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @Imyourfed 1 Dec

Thank you! I've Understood your point.

words can't hurt

I'll always keep this in mind when dealing with a well known troll here

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @Aardvark 1 Dec

Personally, I haven't even run into anything bad enough for me to consider muting them, but if someone was doing something that I truly couldn't stand, I'd just mute them.

I think communities like SN are pretty good at self policing.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

I agree. It's one of my very favorite things about stacker. It feels pure. And people here are generally pretty awesome, even when we have different ideas on things.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @OgFOMK 1 Dec

I've had my ego hurt before and I wanted to mute but then I thought about people who never mute and they are good examples.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @Signal312 1 Dec

Right now I'm just muting people. And the people I mute are probably bots, or people who have never had an original thought in their life, or at least not one that they posted on Stacker news.

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Easy solution. I just finally muted my first person and it felt good. I honestly haven't felt the need otherwise though.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 1 Dec

I haven’t tried muting yet, I am still training my powers of ignoring! I would rather do that than mute, because once I can ignore well here, I can do it anywhere.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

I like this idea. I want to be able have everything flow through me. Unmatched as possible.

686 sats \ 5 replies \ @Turdinthepunchbowl 1 Dec

I just ignore/mute and downzap. Not a fully formed thought, so someone rightfully point out where the issue is with this. What if we increased the power of a downzap? Right now it only really hurts the ranking/visibility of the post, but not sure it matters for the comment at all, but no real penalty for the user itself. Is there a way where if the users post or comment gets a certain amount of down votes, not by sats but instead by unique number of users downzapping them within a period of time, they have a temporary penalty. Could be anything from temporary higher posting/comment fees or even a higher percentage of zaps received going to reward pool instead of the user. Again, only for a temporary time period, like a time out for the user. After time in the penalty box they are back to normal until the next time they shit post or try to scam and the clock resets.

I've only given this 5 mins of thought so interested to hear how we could penalize users/abusers but not censor them.

21 sats \ 4 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

I think this is a really interesting idea. It does seem if something is being down zapped by multiple stackers there could be a bigger penalty without actually censoring. I could get behind this.

11 sats \ 3 replies \ @Turdinthepunchbowl 1 Dec

I don't know exactly where the number of users down voting would be to involve the penalty, but it probably needs to be based on a number of users each over a certain amount. Perhaps it's best for most people to not even know those limits. But it needs to be enough where it would be prohibitive for one person to make multiple accounts to envoke the penalty by itself.

However, I think it would be a useful mechanism to prevent abuse/scammers like that Cowboy who was begging for sats on Thanksgiving and then accidentally posted for a second account and got caught. If enough people downzap then they get less and less sats as a percentage since they'd be sent to rewards pool instead for a period of time. They'd still be able to post/comment, even if it's more expensive, so you aren't censoring but collectively you are sending a signal that their presence isn't currently appreciated. Currently there is nothing like that and this you get people just posting question after question and tons of posts to farm zaps.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

That makes sense. I am sure there is a lot to think through by someone who is much smarter than me.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Turdinthepunchbowl 1 Dec

Hopefully some others poke holes in the ideas laid above, but one more thought. New accounts should have a higher % fee to rewards pool, for a probationary period to make creation of sock puppet accounts less lucrative to engagement farm and require a longer personal investment in time. Wonder if there is some way to handle or discinentivize multiple accounts if they are identified and used in a scam like the user the other day.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

You are full of interesting ideas.

53 sats \ 2 replies \ @Car 1 Dec

Muting and downzapping works 👌

14 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 1 Dec freebie

It is partly what is so awesome about SN!!🤠

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Simple

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @JesseJames 1 Dec

Is there a line?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Not for me. Let it flow.

1010 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 1 Dec

Just remove the daily rewards and the leaderboard and you will see how all assmilkers and sockpuppets will just go away.

MAKE THEM PAY.

22 sats \ 9 replies \ @OgFOMK 1 Dec

I don't always get along with everyone but I think I've made some friends here that I have disagreed with even to the point of nasty language. Coming from a construction job background this mentality of trash talk and disrespect is normal.

I believe Stacker has an adult flag for content. I am not sure. I want to be able to dig into different subjects without fear of reprisal. I also don't want to be so caustic that no one wants to see my posts.

I need to spend more time looking at this territory.

10 sats \ 8 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

I also come from a construction background so my skin is pretty thick. And when I was a kid, bullies physically hurt me. So words online are a joke. I say bring it on. I prefer honest and free thought, even when it isn't in alignment with my own.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Aardvark 1 Dec

I'm a trucker. Same camp. I

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

There is a lot of value in learning to be resilient in the face of adversity. I fear sometimes that kids these days have no ability to do so.

11 sats \ 5 replies \ @OgFOMK 1 Dec

I agree. If someone disagrees with me and they provide insight then I learn something. If the person just wants to negate my work then I realize their amygdala is swollen.

I'm here to learn.

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

This is the way. Let's lift each other up and remain open to new POVs.

11 sats \ 3 replies \ @OgFOMK 1 Dec

Come join the fun and knee-cap yourself!

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

What does that mean?

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @OgFOMK 1 Dec

At Alter_native you can:

Lift each other up
Knee-cap yourself

It's your choice!

--Another T-Shirt

: the act or practice of shooting or otherwise maiming or disabling a person's knees (as by gunshot) -- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kneecapping

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

That makes sense. I don't think I have heard that expression before. Time to start a sats only merch store.. or just out it in the ~AGORA

reply on another page

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @watchmancbiz 1 Dec

NOT HATE! that's BS! however threats of harm, () abuse, etc.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

How would we handle that? How can someone abuse someone else with words? How can someone feel threatened through a screen?

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 1 Dec

Someone used to post AI generated nsfw pics all the time. That person has since stopped. Did they get tired of posting or did some kind of moderation occur?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Good question.. 🤔

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 1 Dec

Just mute people you don't have to hear from is my take.

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @Fiatrevelation 1 Dec

I simply dont engage with posts that don't add much or even subtract from discussions because there's no point.
Zaps and stacker rewards are a strong incentive for people to be civilized and engage meaningfully with meaningful content. Proof of work required to make a post probably discourages trolls/bullies even more.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

Great simple strategy. I am learning to be better at ignoring certain things.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fiatrevelation 1 Dec

Works wonders in person too (e.g. with annoying coworkers)

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 1 Dec

I agree, and I think your views are the consensus here. I don't moderate my territories either. I haven't had any issues, but someone will probably make a point of being an asshole now that I said this.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

I haven't had any issues either. I don't even know what moderation on here does. Is it just the ability to delete posts?

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 1 Dec

I’m right there with you. We each have all the tools we need to navigate this community like adults.

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

It's interesting how often adults don't act like adults.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 1 Dec

True, but sometimes they will if any alternative is taken away.

11 sats \ 6 replies \ @TNStacker 1 Dec freebie

Threats of violence is a good line and pointless to most discussions.

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

How would we handle that?

11 sats \ 4 replies \ @TNStacker 1 Dec freebie

That is a different question. I don't think it has been an issue.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

That's true. When stacker is 100x in size.l, there may be more of this. What would a legitimate threat look like? I have seen it before where someone says they feel threatened on here already. I disagree, but who is to say?

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @TNStacker 1 Dec freebie

Legitimate threat? How can one determine if it is truly legitate until acted upon. Herein lies the question right? It is only speech until someone's smacks you in the face. Although threat with movement toward action is legally assault. Does that only apply in the physical world?

These are good questions. And I think people are too certain in their positions. I think it takes a community to come up with agreeable solutions to most. All will never be satisfied.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @DavidoftheDesert OP 1 Dec

That's true. I like where we are headed here though. It feels like we are on the right path. I tend to think that we might just need to get thicker skin sometimes, feel empowered. And remember, words are just words. If words trigger us or bring fear, it is probably something to look at within ourselves.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 1 Dec freebie

My early environment (South Central Los Angeles, and then central Mississippi) was where words became action very quickly. You are absolutely correct about the need to look within. The problem is the vast majority can not or will not.