How are you doing with the new SN changes? \ stacker news ~meta

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How are you doing with the new SN changes?

890 sats \ 100 comments \ @bief57 6 Jan meta

I see a lot of positive and negative comments regarding the topic of cowboy credits. So far, how has everyone's experience been? Has it met your expectations? Was it better (or "worse") than you expected?

My experience so far: Yesterday literally everything I received and sent was CC, maybe 1% was sats. I have had my wallet attached for over a month and it has been working great and yesterday I couldn't spend CC or sats, nothing. Being on SN yesterday was like being on Facebook or Instagram giving and receiving "likes", only here with a slightly more original name "cowboy credits". I'll call them "Cowboy likes"

Today I continue with the problem of giving Zaps, I can't spend the CC and neither sats. There are few zaps that are successful. I have tried different stacks and zapping with the default amount and the error continues. These are just a few examples.

Yesterday I was feeling frustrated, I just thought "this is ridiculous." Today I'm not giving it any importance, if I can give zaps great and if not, well, there's no way, I can't do anything else. Hakuna matata.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding my words, but I didn't think cowboy likes were going to be so intrusive, I thought there would be a balance between SATS and CC.

I repeat again, I'm probably wrong with these thoughts, maybe I'm not fully understanding this change, I'm not going to judge or criticize the creators of SN, that would be stupid, they have created a great, innovative platform and a unique community.

I'm just writing this post to talk to you. For my part, I will continue to adapt to this new change.

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181 sats \ 13 replies \ @SimpleStacker 6 Jan

Do you have a direct channel to SN? If not, it could be routing errors. I imagine liquidity to SN is super jacked up right now because of the update

355 sats \ 12 replies \ @k00b 6 Jan

It is. I'm going to need to figure out how to automate it. Everyone is using coinos which has reachability problems. I opened a fat channel to coinos, forgot to make it private, and the liquidity got eaten before I updated the out fees.

379 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 6 Jan

My capacity with SN gets eat up almost immediately too on my routing node. The node I use for zapping and getting zapped has only one channel and that's why the capacity is stable.

On a positive note, it looks like demand for lightning capacity (at least in/out/through SN), is outpacing supply. That's bullish for Bitcoin and the future of lightning.

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @nym 6 Jan

I wonder how long they can keep operating.

252 sats \ 9 replies \ @k00b 6 Jan

If someone put a node between us and coinos and managed the liquidity/fees better than I do (not hard 😅), they'd probably make a good return.

209 sats \ 8 replies \ @SimpleStacker 6 Jan

Brilliant. I'll try opening a channel to them tonight.

659 sats \ 5 replies \ @SimpleStacker 7 Jan

Ok, I am now sitting in between coinos and stacker.news. Got about 100k inbound capacity both ways and plenty of outbound capacity.

base_fee_msat = 1000
fee_per_mil = 100

we'll see what happens... if anything...

168 sats \ 4 replies \ @k00b 7 Jan

I opened a 4th (lol) channel to them tonight which I hope doesn't thwart this experiment.

Regardless, SN pays 3% on outbound from our node for zaps, ie if a single great peer captured all of our zap outbound, they'd make up to 3% of all of SN's p2p zaps.

So if routing is something you're into, it might be worth taking advantage of (and I'd jack up that ppm).

97 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 7 Jan

I have no idea what I'm doing with respect to fee rates lol. I'm flying by the seat of my pants.

49 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

I'm trying hard to understand what you two are talking about, but I can't. I could only understand that you are collaborating to improve SN. Thank you.

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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 7 Jan

Ok, I upped my ppm to 500, and last night I routed 3 transactions from stacker.news to ln.coinos.io. I don't think these were zaps though, because they were on the order of 10k-30k sats. Rewards withdrawals, perhaps? Or maybe just routing.

Since I've been up, I don't think I've routed any zaps. Maybe it's my 1 sat base fee that stops it?

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 7 Jan

We have a direct channel that hasn't been drained that might be getting used more often than yours.

The base fee could be interfering with small zaps, but maybe not.

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30 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 7 Jan

I'll give it a shot too. Are you opening to ln.coinos.io?

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 7 Jan

Yep. See also #840611 for a report on my experience after one night

252 sats \ 5 replies \ @sasasuina 7 Jan

Cowboy credit is necessary.
Noncustodial is hard.

If SN had decided to adopt a noncustodial approach from the very beginning, cowboy credit might not have been necessary. However, since SN has been running for several years and is now suddenly transitioning to noncustodial, significant issues have arisen. This is because many users haven’t properly set up their wallets, leading to a significant drop in zap success rates. After all, for a zap to succeed, both the sender and receiver must have wallets set up. To prevent a massive decline in user experience, SN had no choice but to introduce cowboy credit.

The current failures occurring during the payment process fall under the category of "noncustodial is hard."

37 sats \ 4 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

I appreciate your comment, thank you for explaining to me, honestly I have no knowledge about these issues, that's why it has been a bit difficult for me to understand, the only thing I can hope for is that these changes are for the benefit of everyone here.

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @sasasuina 7 Jan

You're welcome. I believe this change isn’t intended to bring more profit to SN. After all, the various revenue shares SN receives haven’t changed. I remember k00b mentioning that this was to avoid legal risks, but I couldn’t find the source at the moment.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @sasasuina 7 Jan

I tried to zap you 3 times and they all failed. 😂 I feel deeply sorry for what you've been through now. 😂

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

lol yeah it's a pain

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sasasuina 7 Jan

Succeeded at last!

61 sats \ 2 replies \ @nichro 7 Jan

To what others said, I would add that this is only 3 days after the update. Folks are still fat and slow from the holiday food.

I say let's give time for people to learn and attach wallets, and then the ratio of CC:sats sent and received might look better

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

Sure, I understand. I really hope that the balance is found again. The guys are working hard on it.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @nym 7 Jan

I’m definitely still trying to get back into the groove

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @Aardvark 7 Jan

Honestly for me, it hasn't been that big of a deal. Maybe I'm just lucky.

27 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

We will probably have to wait a few more days for everything to get back on track.

270 sats \ 3 replies \ @NovaRift 6 Jan

For me, it's working as it was when I joined. I can sometimes send sats and sometimes CC's. Yes, sending sats failed a lot, but not today; I was able to send sats. Maybe they fixed it. If not sats, I make sure I send CC's anyway. But it annoys me sometimes when I want to send sats. I hope they'll fix it all soon.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlokchainB 6 Jan

This has been my experience as well. I barely get any CCs!

ek and k00b putting on a master class in lightning application development!

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

I did see differences

83 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 6 Jan

Me too. I barely notice a difference from three days ago.

46 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsMate 7 Jan

I haven't had any issues at all. As a systems guy, any big change will get alot of critique - I think it is a testament to how much the community cares about SN.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

Thank you for your comment, if it really is a big change, many claim it is for the better, I have faith in it, little by little everything will become organic again

126 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 6 Jan

hahaha I will add this post to my "collection"of posts about CCs.

LOL all my warnings are coming true

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @denlillaapan 6 Jan

Truly. DC saw the future

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 6 Jan

I AM from the future...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

🫡

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 6 Jan

DarthCoin is ALWAYS RIGHT

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

HAHA you enjoy it!

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @denlillaapan 6 Jan

Very much crap.

Agreed with you, it's unbelievably annoying and unbelievably opaque.

Big effing skeptic over here

261 sats \ 2 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

I really don't want to be negative because the change has just been made, I want to see how it continues, but these two days have bothered me a little, but as I say, I want to give this a chance since I have seen some pretty good points of view.

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 6 Jan

I really don't want to be negative because the change has just been made

thank you 🙏

it seems like you're at least able to receive sats

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

Yes, I received some sats today, yesterday was CC only day

45 sats \ 9 replies \ @ek 6 Jan

What wallet are you using? Is there any error message in your wallet logs?

We unfortunately can only look at receive logs, but the logs to send are only stored on your device.

We might change that since it would help us a lot with debugging and I think it doesn't decrease privacy significantly since we already know when someone is zapping.

67 sats \ 7 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

No, the only error message is the one in the post. I'm using coinos.

148 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek 6 Jan

Can you share a screenshot? That sounds like a bug.

If you go to your logs, are there at least messages like this:

INFO ↗ sending payment: 100 sats

I'm using coinos.

Sorry, that is most likely the issue. We've been having liquidity issues with them since a lot of stackers use Coinos or a lot of other lightning nodes route through them to us or vice versa.

@k00b opened a private channel yesterday that should have helped but I think we need to still explicitly prevent other nodes from routing through that channel.

Also sorry if what I just wrote is confusing to you, you don't need to understand it, just wanted to let you know that we're aware and working on it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I was able to zap with peace of mind a couple of hours ago, I don't know if you did something to fix it or I have no idea what else it could have been.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 6 Jan

Can CoinOS users open direct channels? It sounds like that'd be the most straightforward thing to do. I haven't used CoinOS and don't know their model.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 6 Jan

Coinos is custodial so no

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @cleaningup12 6 Jan

I've just changed my nwc from coinos to cashu.me

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 6 Jan

FYI, I think you need to keep your cashu.me wallet open to send sats

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cleaningup12 6 Jan

OK thank you, I did try to use lifpay nwc but SN didn't like it. Kept getting a time out warning ⚠️

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 6 Jan

we already know when someone is zapping.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 7 Jan

I will buy your cowboy credits

33 sats \ 4 replies \ @Cje95 6 Jan

I have really come to love CC and I hate spending them first as a default 😂 its not what I expected but I'm damn proud of my CC 😂

55 sats \ 2 replies \ @gmd 7 Jan

seriously i can get sats anywhere CCs are true scarcity! 😂

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 7 Jan

Lmaoooo I'm dying at this as well a truer statement has not been said I mean who else is giving out CC’s?!?! Bam

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

I can't stop laughing 😂

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

Really? Haha I can exchange my CC for sats

112 sats \ 35 replies \ @gmd 6 Jan

Maybe I’m dense but I still fail to understand why everyone is crying over literally $0-20 worth of satoshis.

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

If you see the price in dollars then you have a problem. Secondly you don't know what those little dollars mean to us stackers living in the third world.

12 sats \ 1 reply \ @gmd 7 Jan

if i have a problem everyone has a problem. until BTC in the world currency reserve everyone will think in dollars. it's going to be a while.

"developing countries" is more woke :P

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @ama 7 Jan

"developing countries" is more woke :P

If only the US, Europe, and the IMF let them develop...

57 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 6 Jan

it's still supposed to work and if you don't know why something is failing because there's not enough feedback, it's understandably frustrating

99 sats \ 29 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Jan

Drama queens with too much free time

45 sats \ 28 replies \ @bief57 OP 6 Jan

creating drama is my passion... just kidding, I'm lying. But it does bother me not to be able to zap and just receive CC, it's like just giving likes.

33 sats \ 27 replies \ @Bell_curve 7 Jan

I will buy your cowboy credits

0 sats \ 26 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

Seriously? How many CC for sats?

33 sats \ 25 replies \ @Bell_curve 7 Jan

1 to 1

12 sats \ 24 replies \ @bief57 OP 7 Jan

Seriously, seriously? or are you kidding? because if I want to change some 7k CC

33 sats \ 23 replies \ @Bell_curve 7 Jan

I think I can trade 7000

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 7 Jan

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 6 Jan

Here's the post where Stackers have given their opinion about the new changes. #837890

However because you're indicating towards failed zaps, I'd say it's a normal thing, it's happening with everyone. It may be because of internet speed as well.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jessikabtc 7 Jan

So far, I haven't noticed much change. It's normal for things to change.

It makes us stronger.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Catcher 7 Jan

I cannot even tell if I'm zapping CC or Sats :/

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @johngribbin 7 Jan

Can I still download a CSV of my transaction history on SN?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @JesseJames 6 Jan

Similar here, I keep getting these CC but how do I send them, I don't see a choice when I respond/post - CC or sats? Can we get a priority set? Use my CC first and then sats...? just a thought...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 7 Jan

Don't attach the sending side of a wallet if you don't want to send sats

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DSP0274 6 Jan

Hi, I'm new to S.N. I'm just getting used to this credit thing. Do I still send sats, like I send cowboy credits?