If you see the price in dollars then you have a problem. Secondly you don't know what those little dollars mean to us stackers living in the third world.
It is. I'm going to need to figure out how to automate it. Everyone is using coinos which has reachability problems. I opened a fat channel to coinos, forgot to make it private, and the liquidity got eaten before I updated the out fees.
I opened a 4th (lol) channel to them tonight which I hope doesn't thwart this experiment.
Regardless, SN pays 3% on outbound from our node for zaps, ie if a single great peer captured all of our zap outbound, they'd make up to 3% of all of SN's p2p zaps.
So if routing is something you're into, it might be worth taking advantage of (and I'd jack up that ppm).
I'm trying hard to understand what you two are talking about, but I can't. I could only understand that you are collaborating to improve SN. Thank you.
Ok, I upped my ppm to 500, and last night I routed 3 transactions from stacker.news to ln.coinos.io. I don't think these were zaps though, because they were on the order of 10k-30k sats. Rewards withdrawals, perhaps? Or maybe just routing.
Since I've been up, I don't think I've routed any zaps. Maybe it's my 1 sat base fee that stops it?
My capacity with SN gets eat up almost immediately too on my routing node. The node I use for zapping and getting zapped has only one channel and that's why the capacity is stable.
On a positive note, it looks like demand for lightning capacity (at least in/out/through SN), is outpacing supply. That's bullish for Bitcoin and the future of lightning.
For me, it's working as it was when I joined. I can sometimes send sats and sometimes CC's. Yes, sending sats failed a lot, but not today; I was able to send sats. Maybe they fixed it. If not sats, I make sure I send CC's anyway. But it annoys me sometimes when I want to send sats. I hope they'll fix it all soon.
If SN had decided to adopt a noncustodial approach from the very beginning, cowboy credit might not have been necessary. However, since SN has been running for several years and is now suddenly transitioning to noncustodial, significant issues have arisen. This is because many users haven’t properly set up their wallets, leading to a significant drop in zap success rates. After all, for a zap to succeed, both the sender and receiver must have wallets set up. To prevent a massive decline in user experience, SN had no choice but to introduce cowboy credit.
The current failures occurring during the payment process fall under the category of "noncustodial is hard."
I appreciate your comment, thank you for explaining to me, honestly I have no knowledge about these issues, that's why it has been a bit difficult for me to understand, the only thing I can hope for is that these changes are for the benefit of everyone here.
You're welcome. I believe this change isn’t intended to bring more profit to SN. After all, the various revenue shares SN receives haven’t changed. I remember k00b mentioning that this was to avoid legal risks, but I couldn’t find the source at the moment.
What wallet are you using? Is there any error message in your wallet logs?
We unfortunately can only look at receive logs, but the logs to send are only stored on your device.
We might change that since it would help us a lot with debugging and I think it doesn't decrease privacy significantly since we already know when someone is zapping.
Can you share a screenshot? That sounds like a bug.
If you go to your logs, are there at least messages like this:
INFO ↗ sending payment: 100 sats
I'm using coinos.
Sorry, that is most likely the issue. We've been having liquidity issues with them since a lot of stackers use Coinos or a lot of other lightning nodes route through them to us or vice versa.
@k00b opened a private channel yesterday that should have helped but I think we need to still explicitly prevent other nodes from routing through that channel.
Also sorry if what I just wrote is confusing to you, you don't need to understand it, just wanted to let you know that we're aware and working on it.
Can CoinOS users open direct channels? It sounds like that'd be the most straightforward thing to do. I haven't used CoinOS and don't know their model.
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I was able to zap with peace of mind a couple of hours ago, I don't know if you did something to fix it or I have no idea what else it could have been.
I really don't want to be negative because the change has just been made, I want to see how it continues, but these two days have bothered me a little, but as I say, I want to give this a chance since I have seen some pretty good points of view.
I haven't had any issues at all. As a systems guy, any big change will get alot of critique - I think it is a testament to how much the community cares about SN.
Thank you for your comment, if it really is a big change, many claim it is for the better, I have faith in it, little by little everything will become organic again
Here's the post where Stackers have given their opinion about the new changes. #837890
However because you're indicating towards failed zaps, I'd say it's a normal thing, it's happening with everyone. It may be because of internet speed as well.
Similar here, I keep getting these CC but how do I send them, I don't see a choice when I respond/post - CC or sats? Can we get a priority set? Use my CC first and then sats...? just a thought...
Maybe I’m dense but I still fail to understand why everyone is crying over literally $0-20 worth of satoshis.
Drama queens with too much free time
creating drama is my passion... just kidding, I'm lying. But it does bother me not to be able to zap and just receive CC, it's like just giving likes.
I will buy your cowboy credits
Seriously? How many CC for sats?
1 to 1
Seriously, seriously? or are you kidding? because if I want to change some 7k CC
I think I can trade 7000
If you see the price in dollars then you have a problem. Secondly you don't know what those little dollars mean to us stackers living in the third world.
if i have a problem everyone has a problem. until BTC in the world currency reserve everyone will think in dollars. it's going to be a while.
"developing countries" is more woke :P
If only the US, Europe, and the IMF let them develop...
it's still supposed to work and if you don't know why something is failing because there's not enough feedback, it's understandably frustrating
Do you have a direct channel to SN? If not, it could be routing errors. I imagine liquidity to SN is super jacked up right now because of the update
It is. I'm going to need to figure out how to automate it. Everyone is using coinos which has reachability problems. I opened a fat channel to coinos, forgot to make it private, and the liquidity got eaten before I updated the out fees.
If someone put a node between us and coinos and managed the liquidity/fees better than I do (not hard 😅), they'd probably make a good return.
Brilliant. I'll try opening a channel to them tonight.
Ok, I am now sitting in between coinos and stacker.news. Got about 100k inbound capacity both ways and plenty of outbound capacity.
base_fee_msat = 1000 fee_per_mil = 100we'll see what happens... if anything...
I opened a 4th (lol) channel to them tonight which I hope doesn't thwart this experiment.
Regardless, SN pays 3% on outbound from our node for zaps, ie if a single great peer captured all of our zap outbound, they'd make up to 3% of all of SN's p2p zaps.
So if routing is something you're into, it might be worth taking advantage of (and I'd jack up that ppm).
I have no idea what I'm doing with respect to fee rates lol. I'm flying by the seat of my pants.
I'm trying hard to understand what you two are talking about, but I can't. I could only understand that you are collaborating to improve SN. Thank you.
Ok, I upped my ppm to 500, and last night I routed 3 transactions from stacker.news to ln.coinos.io. I don't think these were zaps though, because they were on the order of 10k-30k sats. Rewards withdrawals, perhaps? Or maybe just routing.
Since I've been up, I don't think I've routed any zaps. Maybe it's my 1 sat base fee that stops it?
We have a direct channel that hasn't been drained that might be getting used more often than yours.
The base fee could be interfering with small zaps, but maybe not.
I'll give it a shot too. Are you opening to ln.coinos.io?
Yep. See also #840611 for a report on my experience after one night
My capacity with SN gets eat up almost immediately too on my routing node. The node I use for zapping and getting zapped has only one channel and that's why the capacity is stable.
On a positive note, it looks like demand for lightning capacity (at least in/out/through SN), is outpacing supply. That's bullish for Bitcoin and the future of lightning.
I wonder how long they can keep operating.
For me, it's working as it was when I joined. I can sometimes send sats and sometimes CC's. Yes, sending sats failed a lot, but not today; I was able to send sats. Maybe they fixed it. If not sats, I make sure I send CC's anyway. But it annoys me sometimes when I want to send sats. I hope they'll fix it all soon.
This has been my experience as well. I barely get any CCs!
ek and k00b putting on a master class in lightning application development!
I did see differences
Me too. I barely notice a difference from three days ago.
If SN had decided to adopt a noncustodial approach from the very beginning, cowboy credit might not have been necessary. However, since SN has been running for several years and is now suddenly transitioning to noncustodial, significant issues have arisen. This is because many users haven’t properly set up their wallets, leading to a significant drop in zap success rates. After all, for a zap to succeed, both the sender and receiver must have wallets set up. To prevent a massive decline in user experience, SN had no choice but to introduce cowboy credit.
The current failures occurring during the payment process fall under the category of "noncustodial is hard."
I appreciate your comment, thank you for explaining to me, honestly I have no knowledge about these issues, that's why it has been a bit difficult for me to understand, the only thing I can hope for is that these changes are for the benefit of everyone here.
You're welcome. I believe this change isn’t intended to bring more profit to SN. After all, the various revenue shares SN receives haven’t changed. I remember k00b mentioning that this was to avoid legal risks, but I couldn’t find the source at the moment.
I tried to zap you 3 times and they all failed. 😂
I feel deeply sorry for what you've been through now. 😂
lol yeah it's a pain
Succeeded at last!
hahaha I will add this post to my "collection"of posts about CCs.
LOL all my warnings are coming true
Truly. DC saw the future
I AM from the future...
🫡
DarthCoin is ALWAYS RIGHT
HAHA you enjoy it!
What wallet are you using? Is there any error message in your wallet logs?
We unfortunately can only look at receive logs, but the logs to send are only stored on your device.
We might change that since it would help us a lot with debugging and I think it doesn't decrease privacy significantly since we already know when someone is zapping.
No, the only error message is the one in the post. I'm using coinos.
Can you share a screenshot? That sounds like a bug.
If you go to your logs, are there at least messages like this:
INFO ↗ sending payment: 100 satsSorry, that is most likely the issue. We've been having liquidity issues with them since a lot of stackers use Coinos or a lot of other lightning nodes route through them to us or vice versa.
@k00b opened a private channel yesterday that should have helped but I think we need to still explicitly prevent other nodes from routing through that channel.
Also sorry if what I just wrote is confusing to you, you don't need to understand it, just wanted to let you know that we're aware and working on it.
Can CoinOS users open direct channels? It sounds like that'd be the most straightforward thing to do. I haven't used CoinOS and don't know their model.
Coinos is custodial so no
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I was able to zap with peace of mind a couple of hours ago, I don't know if you did something to fix it or I have no idea what else it could have been.
I've just changed my nwc from coinos to cashu.me
FYI, I think you need to keep your cashu.me wallet open to send sats
OK thank you, I did try to use lifpay nwc but SN didn't like it. Kept getting a time out warning ⚠️
Very much crap.
Agreed with you, it's unbelievably annoying and unbelievably opaque.
Big effing skeptic over here
I really don't want to be negative because the change has just been made, I want to see how it continues, but these two days have bothered me a little, but as I say, I want to give this a chance since I have seen some pretty good points of view.
thank you 🙏
it seems like you're at least able to receive sats
Yes, I received some sats today, yesterday was CC only day
To what others said, I would add that this is only 3 days after the update. Folks are still fat and slow from the holiday food.
I say let's give time for people to learn and attach wallets, and then the ratio of CC:sats sent and received might look better
Sure, I understand. I really hope that the balance is found again. The guys are working hard on it.
I’m definitely still trying to get back into the groove
I have really come to love CC and I hate spending them first as a default 😂 its not what I expected but I'm damn proud of my CC 😂
seriously i can get sats anywhere CCs are true scarcity! 😂
Lmaoooo I'm dying at this as well a truer statement has not been said I mean who else is giving out CC’s?!?! Bam
I can't stop laughing 😂
Really? Haha I can exchange my CC for sats
I haven't had any issues at all. As a systems guy, any big change will get alot of critique - I think it is a testament to how much the community cares about SN.
Thank you for your comment, if it really is a big change, many claim it is for the better, I have faith in it, little by little everything will become organic again
Honestly for me, it hasn't been that big of a deal. Maybe I'm just lucky.
We will probably have to wait a few more days for everything to get back on track.
I will buy your cowboy credits
Here's the post where Stackers have given their opinion about the new changes.
#837890
However because you're indicating towards failed zaps, I'd say it's a normal thing, it's happening with everyone. It may be because of internet speed as well.
So far, I haven't noticed much change. It's normal for things to change.
It makes us stronger.
I cannot even tell if I'm zapping CC or Sats :/
Can I still download a CSV of my transaction history on SN?
Similar here, I keep getting these CC but how do I send them, I don't see a choice when I respond/post - CC or sats? Can we get a priority set? Use my CC first and then sats...? just a thought...
Don't attach the sending side of a wallet if you don't want to send sats
Hi, I'm new to S.N. I'm just getting used to this credit thing. Do I still send sats, like I send cowboy credits?