How to Acquire No KYC Bitcoin \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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How to Acquire No KYC Bitcoin

937 sats \ 76 comments \ @expatriotic 28 Jan bitcoin_beginners

Original article at my blog expatriotic.me

Get a Bitcoin wallet.

Ashigaru🔥 Tor🧅 link - Really slick UX.
- Includes features such as Ricochet (adding hops, useful sometimes if you're trying to break chain analysis heuristics)
- Stonewall (A tx with yourself where you appear to be two parties collaborating in a spend)
- StonewallX2
- Bip 47 Paynyms
Envoy
- Can roll one hot wallet
- Coin control
- Tor
- Multiple ways of backing up wallet. Pneumonic phrase or encrypted micro SD, or encrypted blob to icloud
- Also helpful in managing your Foundation Passport wallet if you have one.
Sparrow - Hands down best desktop wallet ever.
- Has great defaults
- Coin control
- Tool to verify FOSS software with devs PGP keys
- Wallet search tool
- Stonewall sends by default when possible (where you use two UTXOs when spending which appears as a two-party StonewallX2)
Zeus - Lightning embedded node (THE NODE IS ON THE PHONE! 🤯)
Phoenix - French company that pulled out of US market when Samourai Wallet devs got indicted by the US Department of Justice.

Fund it.

Tools: KYCnot.me

Rational: No KYC

Bisq - The best option, Uses Tor, can find low premiums, even to the point of getting bitcoins below market price. But better to be the maker as takers pay 10x the fee.
Hodl Hodl - Avoid careful of counterparties that ask you to KYC. Be sure to at least use VPN when using it. Better yet use via Tor Browser.
Robosats - Uses Tor, Uses Lightning, has almost scarily low deposits, and no reputation system. If you want to swap into onchain bitcoins use boltz swap
Peach App - Based in Switzerland and follows their regulations, known for their speedy transactions, doesn't use Tor by default, but you can use orbot to make your phone's traffic route through Tor.

Signing devices

These help keep your private key offline.

FOUNDATION Passport/Prime🔥
SeedSigner - Bitcoin only. Based team and value prop. DIY. Look into it if you want a cheap, DIY, non-persistent signing device. Especially useful for multi-sig and combatting potential supply chain issues with a single HWW vendor.
Jade (never used it) - Bitcoin only.
Trezor - Multi-coin, but can change firmware to be Bitcoin only. Used it, but don't recommend buying if you don't already have one. There's no secure element and physical access by a malicious party could result in loss of funds.
Ledger - Multi-coin. Team is antithetical to all things Bitcoin. Avoid at all costs.

Nodes

Run your own if possible.

Build a server and run Debian or Ubuntu if you're based enough. Ministry of Nodes can help with that.
Start9 - Pre-built server with the Start operating system. They package things like the bitcoin node, jellyfin etc. and help with dependencies. Plug and play.
StartOS - DIY version of Start9. You need to be handy with building your own server.

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59 sats \ 3 replies \ @hynek 28 Jan

Just use https://vexl.it/

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @oliverweiss 28 Jan

I added all my contacts (a couple of hundreds) to find out that the app is useless at this point. It was a nice idea though.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @petertodd 28 Jan

It works fine if you actually have contacts that use it. If you don't, there's nothing it can do to help you.

Go to some Bitcoin conferences and find some people who do use it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @hynek 28 Jan

Fair. It requires local community

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @denlillaapan 28 Jan

Trezors have secure element, afaik

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @clr 28 Jan

Yes, the new models have.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 28 Jan

Good to know, the older models didn't. I'd have to look into it again.

24 sats \ 3 replies \ @petertodd 28 Jan

Missing from this discussion: use cash.

The #1 way to achieve financial privacy is to use cash. If you don't, your KYC-free bitcoin purchases are going to stick out.

"But I get points!" "But cash is dirty!" "But tap to pay is so convenient!"

Fuck off. If you're unwilling to use cash you're just a lazy piece of shit.

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

I'm in China, so getting Bitcoin with cash isn't part of my stack. I mine it through a hosting site in Iowa, wilsonmining.io. Most of the noKYC buying/selling sites, I'm a net seller actually. And I HAVE received cash for sats in China. But not sure what much there is to say about it. It's a low tech solution. This post is about tools, resources, websites, platforms etc. What exactly did you need explained about how cash works that I needed to cover to make more clear for you (or others)?

Again, everything I post is about MY stack. Comments about "you forgot this or this are dumb".

Frame it as a helpful suggestion for the people in the comments or OP (in case it's something I haven't tried before) and you get zapped. Frame it as forgetfulness or ignorance, you don't.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @dingding541 28 Jan

Hang on is Peter, Darth?? Lol

Loving the attitude Pete

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @j7hB75 28 Jan

Fuck off. If you're unwilling to use cash you're just a lazy piece of shit.

LOL

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @8d5ba92c8c 9h

Good content + a very IMPORTANT topic! For the future, consider adding Vexl as well ('a mobile app giving its users a simple, accessible and safe way to trade bitcoin as it was intended — peer-to-peer and without KYC'). Also, I wouldn't recommend Ledger ;) (too many controversies, too many problems in the past) ; BitBox is way better to get into the list.

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 9h

Avoid at all costs.

I only mentioned ledger because it's extremely popular. And then I said, avoid at all costs. Never used the BitBox or even heard of it.

Haven't tried Vexl.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitcoiner1 28 Jan

I prefer to buy on lnp2pbot.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @ama 28 Jan

Mostro on nostr, and mobile and lnp2pbot on Telegram from the same author.

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @kilianbuhn 28 Jan

Your "fund it" options are all kyc

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

Really?

Have you ever used Bisq? You can send envelopes of cash.

Also, a counterparty on Bisq learning your name when you interact because you use ACH or Wise is NOT the same as buying on a KYC centralized exchange, nice try.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 28 Jan

This is the BIG issue I have with No-Kyc Bitcoin. The vast majority of the funding methods, like Strike, CashApp, Zelle etc... Are totally KYC anyway.

And in the Case of Strike, the vast majority of fiat sends and receives through that app (just using common sense) are no-kyc Bitcoin buys through other users.

And if both sender and receiver are using Strike (so the company has kycd them and knows identities etc) then they know exactly what is going on.

In my opinion it's more 'privacy theater' than actual privacy. What am I missing here?

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

AVOID STRIKE and CASHAPP. Never use an app that has your identity AND holds your bitcoins.

I also don't like Zelle, but for other reasons. They mark everything as fraud if you're abroad and behind a VPN.

I still use a remittance app called Wise (similar to Revolut) as I live in China and since my days in Indonesia, it's been a great way to send and receive different currencies of money.

And since I already have it, it works great with buying and selling bitcoins... I have to fly around a lot and as much as bitrefill and the like are cute for gift cards, prepaid visas of ONLY $500 aren't enough for my lifestyle. Buying flights for 4 people cost a few grand, so at the moment, I have a bank, and I use it to send money to the US, swap my Chinese RMB salary for USD or EUR etc. It has some utility.

But this bank and my bitcoin are separate. Always. Except when I buy or sell bitcoins via ACH or Wise. Then my counterparty knows my name. But living in China, I can't exactly accept cash for bitcoin.

30 sats \ 9 replies \ @nout 28 Jan

Phoenix also runs the node on your phone.

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

Can someone check this? I feel like Zeus does most things client side, even pathfinding. Hence the decrease in user experience. @DarthCoin @zeus

109 sats \ 6 replies \ @nout 29 Jan

Zeus has multiple options that are quite advanced. You can pick their LSP (Lightning Service Provider), connect it to your remote node, manage custodial wallets, etc. One of the options is it can run lnd node natively on your phone.

Phoenix has simpler user experience and you can (afaik) only use it with the @ACINQ LSP. Phoenix runs the node on your phone and it creates a private channel to ACINQ, and afaik the ACINQ node does trampoline routing - so specifically to your question I'm not sure if your phone or ACINQ node does the pathfinding.

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Jan

acinq is doing the pathfinding in phoenix case. Yes indeed phoenix is a node on your phone, "a light node". I wish we have more trampoline routing options in other LN implementations.

109 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 29 Jan

It seems @ACINQ is now leading a lot of these bleeding edge capabilities - splicing, trampoline routing, BOLT12, etc. In the meanwhile lnd focuses on shitcoin factory :/

I wish that we would have Phoenix experience, but it would somehow allow migrating the channels to another LSP super easily when things go wrong with ACINQ (and without any need for ACINQ interaction) and relatedly it would also allow using different nodes for trampoline routing.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Jan

In the meanwhile lnd focuses on shitcoin factory :/

I can't agree more...

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 29 Jan

I thought Phoenix and acinq left USA last May

They have good tech support btw

9 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 29 Jan

They are not in app stores in the US, but you can download the app directly from github or from Obtanium and it just works.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 29 Jan

right, good call, my mistake

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Jan

here you have the main differences

9 sats \ 3 replies \ @EverythingSatsoshi 29 Jan

What's the beef with Coldcard. I ask this cos it seems they were intentionally omitted

9 sats \ 2 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

#868347 #868328

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @EverythingSatsoshi 29 Jan

These discussions dilute the technical Socratic debates that should be had solely about the tech.

I get that the NVK criticism, I seldom share that, however if he shits on a product, he at least does so with technical merits(his opinion).

I don't think there's a technical reason for critiquing ColdCards or any of Coinkite's products.

I also respect, your views your opinions. But I believe you dilute the message by stirring this muddy waters.

I respect our list regardless, as it's helpful.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

I have only responded to two people who asked why coldcard was excluded. I'd hardly call omitting it an act of "stirring muddy waters". You literally asked, "what is the beef"... Why ask and then critique when you get an answer

9 sats \ 2 replies \ @flower 28 Jan

lol at not including coldcard

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

Also, I've noticed listening to TFTC or RHR, that they never shill seedsigner or foundation passport... Huh... Wonder why that is. Let's just say this is a divided space and people have taken sides. And while you may think it's cute that I omit an "OG" like coldcard, Foundation Passport is constantly omitted from these discussions about what HWW to use. Which is a shame because it's a fantastic piece of hardware...

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

NVK is a thin-skinned, grifting, non-Free and Open cunt.

Take your source viewable hardware if you want. I'll pass.

No problem with the tech, huge problem with the massive baby that runs the company.

Also, my guides are about my stack and my knowledge.

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @byzantine 28 Jan

mining is the most efficient

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 29 Jan

Thank you, these valuable information resources are appreciated.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Shugard 28 Jan

Good and clean overview! Happy how many boxes I already check.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 28 Jan

Thanks for doing it. It's precise and pretty handy.

32 sats \ 32 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Jan

There's no such thing as "no KYC bitcoin". If would exist such thing it means that Bitcoin is dead.

10 sats \ 31 replies \ @expatriotic OP 28 Jan

No KYC bitcoin is a useful phrase. It's a short-hand for not giving a centralized "honepot" exchange your firstborn, hair clipping, picture of you hold passport, audio of you speaking, 360 degree picture of your face/head, blood/DNA sample, Tax ID number, License, Proof of income, all just so you can buy "cheap" bitcoins from them, which you, because you're ignorant, leave on the exchange and don't take ownership of. So then they get hacked or rug you and you realize you don't have the sats you thought you had.

22 sats \ 30 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Jan

old experienced bitcoiners knows what you mean. But noobs don't. And is very important the language used with them. Saying that you must "buy no KYC Bitcoin" in their mind is automatically making a separation of 2 types of Bitcoin, when THERE ISN'T. If would exist that separation, we will have two different chains, two different coins, transacting on two different ways.

9 sats \ 29 replies \ @028559d218 28 Jan

Here's the thing I don't understand. Sure an exchange knows individual xyz bought Bitcoin... But after that how can they 'track' where the Bitcoin goes? Other than through a serious, high-priority LE investigation over years (and even then) it would be very difficult to track ie through Coinjoins/Lightning/Mixes/P2P transactions/Real World buys/sells etc...

As long as THAT Bitcoin never touches a Kyc-Exchange again then... what is the point?

24 sats \ 25 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Jan

KYC is bad, really bad. But not because you could link a UTXO with your real identity, but because bad actors could steal all that KYC information and use it against you.... even physical attacks. Check this out... all KYC data leaked: https://paste.fo/raw/ad9159623b1c

Yes, indeed, if you are not going back to sell the BTC you bought in a CEX, back for fiat, there's nothing to fear for your sats. Only the bad guys that stole your location data could come to your door and do this...

But that is totally different than saying "KYC bitcoin". Is really misleading noobs (because there's also a business pushing clueless newbies into paying expensive coinjoins, whirlpools etc. creating a false impression that without using these techniques you are fucked). It is not. The whole point is to NEVER go back to fiat and mind your business.

IMHO as an old bitcoiner that was using a lot of tools during many years, coinjoins are obsolete now, a past used tool, in the pre-LN era. With LN I can obtain 10x more privacy than onchain. I personally stopped using coinjoins in 2019 when I start running my first LN node.

9 sats \ 24 replies \ @028559d218 28 Jan

Thanks for your comment. I think some of the 'fud' around Lightning (even from some people who mean well) is due to its complexity.

I am still learning new things about Lightning every day, and "privacy" on the internet in general is the product of many digital tools and techniques, "opsec" for lack of a better word involving data and accessing it.

VPNs and TOR are only some examples of this... but using Bitcoin really privately will have a huge learning curve too.

Some people are just... kinda lazy and don't want to do the work required to learn, they don't want to go down the educational path I guess they want things handed to them.

0 sats \ 23 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Jan

Tor is only for watching porn... IMHO. not compatible with Bitcoin and especially with LN. VPNs yes are good.

30 sats \ 17 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

I generally agree with you. Depends who you want to hid from. If you want to hide your traffic from your ISP and you bought Mullvad with no ID and paid with bitcoin or monero, then you're probably fine. If you're L0la or some journalist or buying drugs then Tor is your bet as it's actually anonymous, unlike VPNs which just shift trust. Just note that the NSA CAN see peep traffic through VPN, documents came out to this effect in 2013. Depending on if you want privacy from the US NSA or not. Also, good luck using Tor only services like Bisq or RoboSats without Tor lol, kind of a default. Unless you're like Darth with stacks of bitcoins he got from CPU mining 10 years ago. Some of us are still net buyers of bitcoins haha

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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @028559d218 28 Jan

I use both. Am I wrong to do that?

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9 sats \ 2 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

That's the point, they don't /can't "track". But they have you on the hook for what you bought. And if you "don't have it" anymore, then pony up the dough for the capital gains.

The point is, other than being on a list and having a knock on your door when your address gets leaked to the dark web as being a bitcoin holder, you are now on a list that the IRS can request from that exchange. Did you declare during your normie taxes you had bitcoin? No, now you're a fraud... Yikes. Better to partition and not let them touch.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 29 Jan

You declare your income to IRS because you are scared. I don't give a shit about any tax agency because I rebut their authority in just 5 min. Their laws do not apply over my btc. We are not the same.

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

I declare my income because it's already automatically paid by my employer in China and while I pay the accountant $200 a year, the IRS gives me $3333 a year (because I have kids). Things are nuanced. We are not the same.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @dingding541 28 Jan

I posted this on nostr yesterday

'if' I suggested a p2p trade for Bitcoin,

I would want to buy sats

you would receive cash in mail

As I would be initiating the trade, I would mail the cash to you first, as a gesture of good faith.

Let's say we started with $100

Would anyone theoretically be interested in transacting with me?

#asknostr

(In hindsight the seller would doxx their address unless one can obtain a po box address? Is that a thing or just in the movies?)

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic OP 29 Jan

Use Bisq for this as they have an escrow system and the deposit is quite large so the buyer and seller stand to lose a lot if they misbehave. Plus there is a reputation system.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 28 Jan

Without privacy, there is no freedom.