pull down to refresh
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Haiku7336 OP 14 Feb \ parent \ on: Stay away from Voltz bitcoin
Coinos is also good, but requires an account, which is terrible for privacy. With ecash the mint can't trace the connection between receiving sats and spending them again.
Then something else must have gone wrong in this case. I definitely used the wallet and spent money from this mint a few times within these 6 months.
What does this mean in practive for wallet users? That they should rotate their cashu tokens every few weeks? I think in this case my funds were max 6 months old.
I was able to recover the funds. I posted an update here: #881432
Update:
Voltz just contacted me with this email:
Hello!I saw your post on Stacker News through Calle's notice, who helped me understand how to recover your funds from an old keyset.What happened is that there was no censorship; the issue was due to the incompatibility of a deactivated keyset. This is very different from censorship—it was disabled for security reasons. But anyway...After running a separate mint in a controlled environment, we managed to retrieve the proofs of your eCash and recover them. So, I’m sending you a token of 20,015 sats from the recovery, which you can withdraw at any time.We apologize for any inconvenience caused so far. See you!-------cashu token string-------
With this I was able to recover the funds.
Big thanks again to this forum and to @calle for supporting in the recovery. I decided to donate the recovered funds to @calle.
To summarise the situation with Voltz:
- I would have appreciated if they had disclosed somewhere publicly, or at least on their website, that they disabled the keyset. If I had known what was going on, I would not have reset my wallet and the recovery would have been much easier.
- I would also have appreciated if they had taken some initiative themselves in contacting the Cashu team in what can be done about this issue, instead of just deciding to ignore me until I created this forum post.
I have had problems with minibits too, but most of it was my fault then I learned how to revert and recover bad payments.
Yes, minibits still has its issues, but in this case they even confirmed, that they disabled a keyset (#880902):
Hello, yes we are aware that some customers would have problems after we disabled this vulnerable Keyset
Coinos is definitely a good option. I also have that in the Minibits wallet and it is very reliable.
I understand that the wallet has still bugs, but in this case they even confirmed that they disabled a keyset, see this message from the entire conversation (#880902):
Hello, yes we are aware that some customers would have problems after we disabled this vulnerable Keyset
Thank you for looking at this issue. I have another suggestion for the future:
Would it be possible to implement a light protocol for mints to send notifications to their users? E.g. in this case if I had received a notification about the keyset disabling, I would have known what is going on and not reset my wallet.
On 13 January I sent them the last message, I posted of the conversation, to which I got no reply. Then on 25 January I sent a follow up message, asking if they have any news here, to which again I got no reply. So now I ended up here. Before that they were quick and replied within a day.
What I can say is, that I have also done the seed recovery with Voltz in the past and it used to work. Just now not, which probably is due to them disabling my funds.
I am quite confident that it is technically possible to find out which disabled keysets my seed hits, they just dont have the interest / technical competence to do this.
You see? Your lack of understanding how ecash works made you to lose funds and not Voltz. You are talking about Minibits app seed. That seed IT IS NOT LINKED to another mint that is not minibits. The seed is only for Minibits app.In Minibits you have the option to backup the tokens, that RESIDE on your device and nowhere else. Voltz cannot recover your ecash tokens from Minibits app. If you erase those tokens, are gone.The only thing Voltz can do is to dig up into your account and see the LN movements and do the math for the remaining balance and give you those sats.Please understand that the sats are already on Voltz node, but you were playing around only with a bunch of IOUs ecash tokens.Think about this: Voltz gave you some gift cards and you burn them. Now you complain to give you back the value of those burned gift cards. You are making them responsible for your own actions... that is not fair.
Sorry, but I have to disagree here. It is true, that the created Cashu tokens are stored on the Minibits wallet. But it is also true, that the cashu Protocol provides a function, where with the seed the wallet can restore all tokens of a specific mint. Actually I had 3 different mints on that Minibits wallet, Voltz, Minibits Mint and Coinos Mint. And the tokens for minibits and Coinos get both restored just with the seed after I reset my wallet. Just for Voltz not, because they disabled my tokens.
I have been using their cashu mint with Mibinits walletI think the issue is on that side... and not on Voltz side. ecash cashu and minibits are still in early phase and use it only as testing purposes. I think that Voltz operators didn't know how to help you because they also depend on how cashu and minibits devs are responding to this issue.I also had some technical difficulties with Minibits app, I contacted directly the dev to identify where is the problem. I always considered those funds as "testing funds".
Could be, but the point is they even confirmed that they froze some funds and it coincided with that. What I found the most unprofessional is that they just disabled some funds and didn't post anywhere about it. They just waited for users to contact them after they started having errors. If you compare it to other wallet operators, like Coinos, they immediately made it public here, when they discovered a vulnerability.
If you are interested see also the entire exchange, that I posted here:
#880902
Thank you for the quick reply. I attached the entire conversation:
Me
Dear Voltz team,
I am having an issue, that I can't access any more the ca 20.000 sats I had deposited on the cashu mint mint.lnvoltz.com.
The first time I noticed this issue was on Thursday, the 12.12.2024, when I tried to make a lightning payment and if failed. I am using the Minibits wallet. Since then, whenever I tried to send money from the mint, I was getting the error "Invalid Keyset". Today I tried to reset my wallet and recover the cashu tokens from the seed, but it doesn't find any tokens. With the other mints I had it worked.
Did you notice any issues from your side, that could have caused this disruption?
Thanks and best regards
Voltz
Hello, yes we are aware that some customers would have problems after we disabled this vulnerable Keyset. You can call me on Telegram t.me/EM_TLL to resolve it faster. I will help you provide me with your ecashs of your back-up only, from voltz mint.
With this, we will burn manually in our database and send you the funds returned by Lightning. All right for you? I say it, because we cannot reactivate Keyset due to its vulnerability.
So... I look forward to you on Telegram, until then!
Me
Thank you for the quick reply,
I have been having some issues with my telegram account recently, so I will try to give you the info through here:
Because I reset my wallet today, assuming it was a wallet issue, I don't have the actual key values or their backups. The only thing I have is the original seed of the minibits wallet. Since, I have emptied the wallet otherwise, I am fine in providing it here:
<provides wallet seed>
I hope, that it is possible to restore the funds with this seed. Please send the recovered funds to this lightning address:
<provides lightning address>
Thanks and best regards
Voltz
Perhaps with SEED alone it is not possible to recover the secrets and signatures of Ecash. Are you sure you don't have any backup files? in this file contains all the secrets and signatures of the Mint that serve to burn in the database. Similarly, I will try to recover by the seeds and see if something appears. I will contact you as soon as you test.
Me
Yes, unfortunately, even the backup creation was not working, it was giving similar keyset errors. But the seed alone should also be enough. After the reset I was able to recover just with the seed the funds of the 2 others mints I had together with Voltz. I don't know the details of how it works, but I think it has some kind of function, where it goes deterministically through all possible ecash values based on the seed and checks which ones actually exist.
Voltz
Hello!
I have recovered the seed from your wallet several times but no funds have appeared. I needed the backup file with the secrets and signatures to manually check the database, add up the balance, burn the ecash bills and return the remaining balance to you via lightning invoice.
Are you sure you don't have this file?
Me
Hello!
yes, 100% sure I dont have it. I was not able to create it due to the keyset error, before I made the reset.
I dont know the technical details, but I assume that the seed based recovery queries the server for all possible secrets until it finds the existing ones. So if the keysets are disabled due to vulnerability, it doesnt find anything. For this reason it recovered the funds for the other 2 mints but didnt find anything for voltz.
Is it possible to temporary reenable the keyset to make the recovery and then disable it again? Or maybe create an offline copy of the database and perform the recovery with that?
Thanks and best regards
---Ne reply after that---
Thank you for the suggestion. Was considering it, but had doubts.
The fact, that stackers like it, was the extra push that I needed.
Great list thanks for sharing! Does anyone know of a storage focused service comparable to Hetzner Storage Box? I find their pricing with around 2 USD / TB quite competitive.
who are you responding to? I think you responded to the wrong post. I'm not sure who's not taking responsibility for their actions, but it's not me.and don't worry. I'm not waiting. :) :) :) for that matter, women these days aren't. Not really any of them. Pretty cool, really.
Nothing else to add... I will let this conversation stand like this everyone judge for themselves.
bug
I am also getting a similar bug trying to bet no on US Elections for either Kamala or Trump will Win. Exact workflow:
- click "bet no " on e.g. "Trump will win"
- Change number of shares to 200
- Click buy
- I get on top the Toast "Prediction is not valid"
- In addition I see in the console a bad request 400 error on the /api/predictions endpoint
When I try the same thing with the default value of 100 shares, it successfully shows me the lightning qr popup.
I am using Mullvad Browser.