pull down to refresh

I was wandering around youtube tonight and came across this video
This was the most brutal takedown of the lightning network I have ever seen. There are a lot of intelligent LN experts here on Stacker News, and I think it would be a real learning experience for everyone to watch the video and hear some rebuttals.
1619 sats \ 1 reply \ @DaveC 29 Jan 2023
Quick thoughts as I listen - I'm not an expert.. but this seems like FUD.
"Rather than trying to fix the problems with Bitcoin, the community has decided to simply ignore them and create a different set of problems with the Lightning Network."
No... to "fix" the problem, necessarily would involve trade-offs.. trade offs no sensible person wants to make on L1.
Price volatility is not a problem.. certainly not one to be solved by engineering. Price is a reflection of the subjective valuations of network participants.
The reason bitcoin is the base layer of lightning is because bitcoin is fair, secure, valuable, decentralized etc. we can't just use "anything"
There are risks of custodial services centralizing on network.. that will be up to the users.. and to the extent that creates a problem, solutions to move away from custodial services will be developed.. it's still very early on. Plus its an open and permissionless protocol.
"both parties must agree to setup a channel, that is the opposite of permissionless"
No it isn't. That's called mutual voluntary exchange.
If there is a dispute between a lightning payment, it just settles back to the base chain.. not sure of the particulars here so I could be enlightened.
More decentralization of LN doesn't mean that a transaction will have to hop through more channels.. the opposite in fact. The network is much larger, with more nodes, and we get significantly higher successful routes now.
Government could attack lightning through calling them payment services/banks etc and regulation.. yes, we'll see if they do and if they can enforce it.
reply
You say you're no expert, but great response. The one issue I wrestle with, and I've heard this from lightning proponents too, is the possible need for centralized, large nodes to permit reliable payments at a much higher volume.
reply
1476 sats \ 1 reply \ @ama 29 Jan 2023
There isn't any brutality at all, only misconceptions, ignorance, and plain lies. Most of it has already been explained, criticized, and debunked in the comments. Watching that video is wasting nine minutes of your precious time.
reply
For an ACTUAL good takedown, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9KMRWkcwtE , where Matt lays out the challenges and potential solutions.
reply
Waiting with popcorn.
reply
Every single time I watch one of these videos, they either completely fail at presenting alternative solutions that are not a shitcoin or try to r/atheist you into accepting that it's hopeless.
reply
You don't need experts to debunk or explain it. You need proper education in this matter. For yourself, so you can dump tand avoid these kind of bullshit videos madr by bcahers.
Wasting your time with these show us that you are not willing to learn about bitcoin but you are still in denial, only looking for debunking, opinions, debates, fud.
In other words: exactly what are doing the shitcoiners, wasting their precious time with garbage. Later you will sorry for all this lost time.
reply
I stopped watching after the ”three flaws” of Bitcoin. 😅
reply
I didn't bother watching and came to comments first 🤣
reply
His arguments against on chain bitcoin were the usual and not very interesting. I found his attack on the lightning network were not as easily dismissed.
reply
I won't hold my breath. 🙂😌
reply
Sounds like someone who read a few cointelegraph/coindesk articles or spoke to BCH'ers and didn't do much research and just turned those critiques into a video, when he said that LN makes no attempt to help price vol I nearly switched off lol, where did that ever say that was the intension?
He says that LN can move any other asset and he is right, it also lives on the Litecoin network although no ones using it, they're working on moving other assets with Taro, but that introduces a bunch of other centralisation issues, the reason its ideal for bitcoin is because LN is built with watching the chain in mind and since running a BTC node is still affordable you can do it yourself.
He speaks about no cold storage for LN, why would you need that? The entire point of LN is payments?
He speaks about broadcasting incorrect states to the basechain and stealing funds, yes this is possible, but you run the risk of your counterparty exercising a justice transaction and you could lose your funds for being a bad actor. Also why would you want to burn your reputation for a few million sats?
He talks about centralising paths which is kinda true there will always be a bunch of super nodes like an exchange routing a lot more than your average node, but things like multi-path payments, there will always be a reason for the network to find cheap liquidity to route through
Yes governments could come after LN nodes as money services businesses, especially with the whole synthetic assets but that only pushes nodes to be run in other regions, or run your node over tor. You're just spinning up software and committing data to a network, while the can categorise it as money services the action remains the same and is trivial to boot up
reply
Yes governments could come after LN nodes as money services businesses, especially with the whole synthetic assets but that only pushes nodes to be run in other regions, or run your node over tor.
They could make a law that attempts to regulate Lightning nodes but they can't actually stop your node from running one. The government only fries big fish. There is no way the feds will know you have a node and bother to knock on your door to seize it.
reply
Lightning Networks problem is that its a "heavy" protocol. You need to sync base layer you need to sync LN graph you need to manage liquidity. And any mistakes, bugs, etc. your own funds are at stake and there are no insurance/customer service/refunds. Its alot of work and risk. And how many users are there? Its like setting up shop in the desert! But maybe eventually this guy who decided to set up shop in the desert will find himself surrounded by casinos and what not one day. A big city.
reply
Lol, you dont have to “manage liquidity” if you dont want too. You can literally have 1 channel if you want.
reply
deleted by author
reply