Nobody should suggest using a Raspberry Pi for running a Bitcoin node in 2023!!! \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Nobody should suggest using a Raspberry Pi for running a Bitcoin node in 2023!!!

4776 sats \ 38 comments \ @0331a73357 1 Jun 2023 bitcoin freebie

rPi 4 are Weak, NOT cheap, Old (2019), and NOT power efficient (compared to a modern low voltage CPU)

I've been testing almost every Node in a box on rPi, and all the bad experiences below did happen to me at least once.

rPi were designed in and sold as cheap toys to learn and experiment on DIY project using GPIO pins.

They need assembly, heatsinks, screwing fans, plugging cables to the right PIN, ect ect.

Come with cheap unpredictable fans that often don't last.

The 5v3A power supply that comes with it most of the time is cheap and breaks.

rPi only takes in 5 volts over that USB-C, some high quality power supply delivers ~4.9v and will trigger under voltage instability and throttling.

Most newer, high quality power supply WILL NOT WORK, as they will try to jump up the voltage to 9, 12 or 20v instead of staying on 5v

5 volts mean that a high quality USB cable of relatively short length is required to make sure there are no voltage drop on that low voltage line.

It's near impossible to find a charger that is above 2 AMP while the rPi needs 3A depending on the attached storage.

Installing the OS on an SD card will lead to more corruption if the power is lost to the rPI

The SD card has low and unpredictable write count. The SD card will become read only after a while.

There is no way to attach HDD storage without a extra active USB to SATA adapter.

This USB adapter is unpredictable and unreliable, might break on you, Might only work at USB 2.0 Speed

No way to install the hard drive in a clean way, Most of the time the drive is left dangling on it's cable or is being taped to the bottom of the the rPi casing.

The USB to SATA interface is slower than direct NVME or SATA connection.

Being digitally sovereign is not ONLY about running a Bitcoin node to verify your transactions.

Doing ANYTHING more than running a Bitcoin Core and a light electrum server (electrs) to verify only a small personal wallet will tax your rPi beyond it's limit.

For about 100$ There are used, field test, computers that are about the same size, made of metal, 10 times more powerful, 2+ times the ram, Have ports for direct attachment of SATA and NVME drive. Wifi, Bluetooth, Have a very reliable power supply. All you might want to do it swap the HDD for a bigger 1 or 2tb one and boot from a USB stick to install a new Linux OS.

The Electricity savings are ridiculously not worth it give the hassle. Each savings of 5 watts is equal to (0.005kwh) * 0.07 * 24 * 365 = $3.00

Link to Optiplex Micro search : https://www.amazon.com/s?k=optiplex+micro&s=price-asc-rank&crid=7OE2N02FZZIG&qid=1685628318&sprefix=optiplex+micro%2Caps%2C131&ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank

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163 sats \ 0 replies \ @plebsy 1 Jun 2023 freebie

I use EmbassyOS running on an 8gig Pi4 and it works pretty well. I can run bitcoin core, LND, use the mempool app, Vaultwarden, etc all at once and I haven't run into many issues. Would EmbassyOS perform better on better hardware? Of course. But running on a Pi seems like a good option still.

309 sats \ 9 replies \ @badabing 1 Jun 2023

Maybe you should assemble and sell node specific hardware? Pretty sure many bitcoiners would be interested.

60 sats \ 1 reply \ @0331a73357 OP 1 Jun 2023

What could go wrong? Being added to list or being supply chain attacked? More likely just throwing money out the window, if only for global shipping.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @badabing 1 Jun 2023

Then maybe a detailed guide on how to do this? Could be added to bitcoiner.guide or smth.

But even then, we can't expect mass adoption (with self-custody and personal nodes) to occur if everyone has to build their own node from scratch.

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @DiracDelta 1 Jun 2023

Why would someone start a tiny lifestyle business? Maybe some of the trash companies like Swan should do this.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @aoeu 1 Jun 2023

What are other "trash companies" and why is Swan considered one of them? KYC stuff?

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @DiracDelta 1 Jun 2023

Very few people actually doing anything that matters. World is still run on fiat, and bitcoin industry in no way isolated from that.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @aoeu 1 Jun 2023

As long as places stay bitcoin only (I'm looking at you Casa), I feel they are still doing more help than harm. Have to use the current rails to orange pill as many people as possible. I'm more than happy to keep burning my inflated fiat dollars and getting bitcoin in return.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiracDelta 2 Jun 2023

I didn't get into bitcoin to have low standards

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @nerd2ninja 1 Jun 2023

You're right, but damn, why are people like this

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @sime 1 Jun 2023

Some stacker is doing that already in the US. But Umbrel and Start9 are essentially doing that now.

198 sats \ 1 reply \ @02891e0a4c 1 Jun 2023

Meh I disagree. They are very energy efficient. The OS can be on the ssd and basically be read only making them a bit harder to attack than a laptop that was even just casually in use. You should backup your old laptop channels as much as the pis so there is no difference there either.

I have yet to see anybody running a laptop 24/7 for lightning, while I've heard the recommendation a lot. But I know a lot of pi runners.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @m00ninite 1 Jun 2023

I upgraded from an rpi4 to a 2012 macbook and it runs 24/7. Much faster, too.

142 sats \ 0 replies \ @iguano 1 Jun 2023

You can buy an old server cheaper than a pi, but old this user friendly LN nodes are build over pi

142 sats \ 0 replies \ @takaponka 1 Jun 2023

I got two nodes, mainet and LN on rpi4 Both are very stable. If I want to do routing then I need better HW.

on the market now the good choice is not rpi but mini pc of course

142 sats \ 3 replies \ @nerd2ninja 1 Jun 2023

Optiplex gang rise up!

Edit: Are you going to repost on r/bitcoin? I can do it for you if you want.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 1 Jun 2023

Are strong machines.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 1 Jun 2023

Edit: Are you going to repost on r/bitcoin? I can do it for you if you want.

Don't forget to link to SN to show them the way :)

I am also interested if the reactions to this post will be different (and if so, how) on Reddit

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 1 Jun 2023

Oh its depressing seeing how people act on reddit tbh lmao

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/13xj0ug/nobody_should_suggest_using_a_raspberry_pi_for/

76 sats \ 0 replies \ @sime 1 Jun 2023

What is the thinking around CM4 boards with nice expansions.

I have pibox.io.

Though I am using it as a media server mostly.

83 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 1 Jun 2023

Can I ask someone with technical knowledge to create a guide for those currently running Umbrel on a pi to switch to better hardware and successfully migrate their existing LN node (lessen chance of loss of bitcoin, channels, etc)?

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @0331a73357 OP 1 Jun 2023

I'm using Parmanode for now, And it's been very turnkey so far. Umbrel might definely be better but I really wanted Fulcrum as electrum server as it's the only one that scale past for many users at once OR large wallets. https://github.com/ArmanTheParman/Parmanode

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @StevenBlack 4 Jun 2023 freebie

🙄 this is nonsense.

A bitcoin node runs absolutely fine on RbP, alongside whatever addons you want.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 1 Jun 2023

I’ll add one

Longevity!

My pi started to act up after about 2 years of smooth operation (a routing node with about 20+ channels)

Now I just use it for one channel to zap people on damus.

25 sats \ 0 replies \ @l0k18 1 Jun 2023

100% even laptops as old as 2017 or so are still pretty decent. They have battery backup as well, well, some, usually at least half an hour, long enough for most Western power outages.

10k sats \ 1 reply \ @andy 2 Jun 2023

Take a look at my node build: http://andyschroder.com/DistributedCharge/news/2022.06.04-RaspiBlitzOnTheTOFU/ . It's based on the Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4, so you can image any raspi4 disk image to it natively. The SSD is cleanly mounted and it comes with a screen. You can provide up to 24VDC to it, so the power issues are not a concern.

I have a few of these in stock now

3.5M sats with screen and an integrated 80 minute UPS (not pictured in the link).
3.0M sats with screen
2.6M sats without screen.

Contact me if interested: http://andyschroder.com/contact/ .

76 sats \ 0 replies \ @0331a73357 OP 2 Jun 2023

Gorgeous setup, and very nice high res picture.

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @mIX 3 Jun 2023

I wholly agree. I've upgraded to a Dell Optiplex 7040 Micro (refurbished) for cheap and it's a great unit for a node. ~$200 and you've got a i5 processor, 16GB of RAM and SSD with the ability to add another m.2 drive. Lots of these for sale online.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @mIX 3 Jun 2023

I should mention if you just want a basic node, then a Pi will work, but if you want lighting channels and extra features, it's prob best to upgrade.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @343pg 6 Jun 2023

Thanks for this - this and the original post has inspired me to give up the wait for a Pi and do the same. I'm a complete beginner though - do you know of any good guides for how to get setup?

10k sats \ 0 replies \ @Futru 2 Jun 2023

I just installed umbrel on an old dell with 2tb SSD. Also a standalone instance of bitcoin core. Used to have mynode. Ran hot and buggy

1010 sats \ 0 replies \ @02db2213a7 1 Jun 2023

I'm grateful to Raspberry Pi Foundation for popularizing microcomputers and making SBC devices affordable but I wish their decision making processes put more weight on other factors than their cost and logistics of manufacturing. So far, it looks like their product management team completely ignored users' convenience and e-waste issues when designing I/Os. RPi Zero devices notoriously using micro USB B even for peripherals (so they need ancient standard charger and special OTG adapter cable to connect any peripheral), all Raspberries using completely unpopular HDMI variants (micro and mini, either way, who has such a spare cable at home?), with every iteration users call on the foundation to finally include some other storage option, even if that means old SATA controller on USB bus - no, we need to live with SD cards that die on us randomly or again, buy USB to SATA adapters purposely for the Raspberry Pi, that no one will ever use for anything else (do I smell e-waste again?), not to mention that f*ck tons of those cheap adapters are pretty much incompatible with ARM Linux and the ones that do work properly cost like 5 times more than the ones that don't (last time I checked it was like 2019 so maybe this has changed for better, don't know). Anyway, I pretty much gave up on them.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @cristaiji 1 Jun 2023

Thanks. I was looking into rPi but will now almost certainly go with something more reliable and powerful .

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 1 Jun 2023

rPi were designed in and sold as cheap toys to learn and experiment on DIY project using GPIO pins.

Exactly that! Well said.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @2bithits 1 Jun 2023

Mine is doing ok so far, but I WILL be upgrading to a more powerful computer soon.

What to do with the old rPI? Run an electrum server?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @StevenBlack 4 Jun 2023 freebie

On an old RbP install Rasbian (which is their default Linux) and get Mathematica for free.

Mathematica, aside form being generally awesome, has native support for querying different blockchains, and you can use Wolfram Language to build almost anything.

Nevermind that an old RbP runs a bitcoin node just fine. Some folks on this thread seem to think running a bitcoin node requires a "real" computer. That's nonsense. That's just inexperience, talking.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 1 Jun 2023

Agreed - get on eBay and buy a used computer. Thin client or a Mac mini work great relative to an rPi.

You can get a Mac mini for around $150 with 1TB SSD.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Anonomoto 4 Jun 2023

I'm finding this out as I'm constantly troubleshooting why my rPi4 keeps losing sync, it's really frustrating and I've started looking at getting a cheap intel Mac Mini for like $100 that I can plug in, set up remove a lot of the problems I'm experiencing with rPi4 with Umbrel OS.