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Exploring Multi-Sig Setups: Seeking Thoughts on Casa and Alternatives

1530 sats \ 30 comments \ @x 8 Jul 2023 bitcoin

Hey Bitcoin community,

As my stack of Sats grows, I've been considering multi-sig setups, but I want to keep things simple. Currently, I store my coins on a hardware wallet. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Casa. Are there any alternative solutions you recommend? Additionally, I'm interested in learning about best practices and resources to prevent the loss of my Bitcoins.

I appreciate your input and any valuable suggestions you can provide!

Thanks a lot in advance!

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3010 sats \ 6 replies \ @021da48107 8 Jul 2023

Nunchuk.io / Nunchuk wallet

Pros

AFAIK this is the only non-KYC multisig custodian.
Their app has a encrypted chat feature which can come in handy when trading BSMS or PSBT files.
Supports a wide range of hardware wallets.

Cons

Their desktop app is in beta but I found it to have lots of bugs.
Linux desktop app uses a very outdated libssl package that you can't install in modern distros.
Their mobile client does not work with hardware wallets like the ledger nano s plus.

Unchained

Pros

Does not cost anything for the basic model until you actually need to use them as a signer.

Cons

Does not support seedsigner
KYC Required.

Casa

This is the one I have the least hands-on experience with.

Cons

The most basic model costs money even if you never use them as a signer.
They now support Ethereum ( might be a pro for some ).

DIY method

If you have a friend who uses bitcoin you can create a 2/3 multisig and use their signature as one of the sigs.

Pros

If you use your friends sig that they use for themselves they have an incentive to keep it safe/backed up.
non-KYC.

Cons

If you give the descriptor to your friend, or a BSMS, your friend can see how many sats you have.
Probably more likely your friend looses their signing device/backup than a company loosing theirs.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @TSW 8 Jul 2023

Nunchuck is the solution for me. Pricing is also attractive.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @aoeu 9 Jul 2023

I'd love to use Nunchuck with my brother and trusted friend as signers in case something happens to me and my keys. My wife could then reach out to one of them and they'd be able to sign together to get the 2 needed keys.

Only issue that I'm trying to work out is if there is a way to allow my brother and trusted friend to be part of the multi-sig but otherwise not be able to watch the balance.

Anyone know if this is possible?

110 sats \ 0 replies \ @hugomofn 10 Jul 2023

We're working on something that will enable you to do this. Stay tuned!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @021da48107 10 Jul 2023

You can kind of do this already with 1 of your friends. Here is a rough idea of how you would do it:

Have your friend send you their multsig xpub and derivation path for their signing device.
Create a 2/3 multisig and use their xpub + derivation path as one of the sigs in the multisig.

Your friend wouldn't be able to see your wallet since they don't have the other 2 xpubs + derivation paths, but if they needed to sign a tx they could.

Downside to this is your wife would need 1 of the sigs to get your Bitcoin. You could do a 2/3 and have your friend and brother be signers but they technically could get together and steal your Bitcoin.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @x OP 8 Jul 2023

Thanks a lot. Will check it out!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @frostdragon 8 Jul 2023

Unchained is ideal for passing your wallet on to a loved one if you pass, from my understanding

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @stackerjim 9 Jul 2023

I have used Casa for a couple of years. The idea of colaborative custody appeals to me but I decided to cancel my subscription. In the end it was a buggy app, the high price (now even higher) and the need for more privacy (they can see all your utxo's) that made me leave.

Eventually ended up rolling my own 2-of-3 which takes a bit of work but in the end provides a great feeling of calm hodling.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @BTCExecutor 8 Aug

Is it just Casa that can see all your UTXOs, or any collaborative custody service that holds your multisig descriptor file?

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @stackerjim 9 Aug

Hehe blast from the past post. At this time, every collaborative custody service will be able to see amounts. To be able to sign a (recovery) transaction for you, they need al three public keys. It's the technical state of things right now unfortunately.

56 sats \ 3 replies \ @02aa009417 8 Jul 2023

just backup all the seed phrases and derivation path and you're good.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Merkle_Tree_hugger 9 Jul 2023

Is this the same as backing up xpubs? Or do you need the derivation path separately stored?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @02aa009417 9 Jul 2023

You can also recover the respective xpub with the seed phrase and derivation path.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @lightcoin_ 9 Jul 2023

the purpose of a multisig is, in part at least, to be resilient to losing 1 or more seeds (depending on the exact setup). so, the best practice is to keep a backup of ALL xpubs with EACH seed. this way even if 1 (or more) seeds are lost (less than quorum) you can still use all xpubs and remaining seeds to recover and sweep to a new wallet.

56 sats \ 1 reply \ @purpurato 8 Jul 2023

You can start here

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @x OP 8 Jul 2023

Thanks!

1100 sats \ 0 replies \ @franzap 8 Jul 2023

If you want to keep things simple but have more than a seed phrase, would you consider SeedXOR instead of multisig?

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @03c43494a9 8 Jul 2023

I like Casa. There are a ton of options with how to do multisig and I think that’s one of the toughest parts. Taking the time to learn everything takes a really long time. Casa has an opinionated view that makes it easy to follow a secure setup.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @benthecarman 9 Jul 2023

i wouldnt use casa, their model doesn't make any sense and they are shitcoining

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @03c43494a9 10 Jul 2023

If you’re gonna say their model doesn’t make sense, you gotta explain why. Same thing with shitcoining. I agree on the second part a little, if a business starts focusing away from bitcoin they are screwing themselves in the long run, but a little more info is needed regardless

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @lightcoin_ 9 Jul 2023

another good resource to explore the tradeoffs of different options: https://btcguide.github.io/

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mrldotsh 9 Jul 2023

I’d highly recommend getting familiar with the topic first, before actually sending a bigger stack of sats to a multi-sig wallet of your own! (I mean, that’s why you here ^^)

Here’s a very good guide by one of the co-founders and creators of the BitBox02 hardware wallet. All signers will be from the same vendor. Many will point out that this may be bad practice (danger of supply chain attacks), but there are good reasons for it! Especially in the case of BitBox02!

He uses Electrum, but it also works with SparrowWallet (which has a nicer UI, IMHO).

https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bitbox02-electrum-bitcoin-multisig/

There’s also an in-depth article about some of the dangers of multi-sig (drawbacks if not set up correctly): https://bitbox.swiss/blog/how-nearly-all-personal-hardware-wallet-multisig-setups-are-insecure/

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Merkle_Tree_hugger 9 Jul 2023

Is specter still preferred over Sparrow for multisig? I'm familiar with Sparrow, but haven't used spector yet.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cyberpunk02 8 Jul 2023

I like Nunchuck, but you forgot to mention Sparrow and Specter maybe to the

DIY method

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @ae52f929c 8 Jul 2023

Specifically why do you need multi-sig? People latch on to this as a solution all the time and it is very specific to individual needs. Most of the time you can simplify your situation by using a single seed phrase + password phrase.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @021da48107 8 Jul 2023

I would say single-sig + passphrase is a middle ground between single-sig (no passphrase) and multi-sig. Here is the way I see it:

Pros of single-sig + passphrase

Simpler than multi-sig.

Pros of multi-sig

If you do a 2/3 multi-sig you can loose 1 private key and you can still get to your Bitcoin.
You can utilize one of the multi-sig custodians (Unchained, Nunchuck, Casa, etc).
You can use a friend/family as one of the sigs in a 2/3 multi-sig.

At the end of the day everyone has to decide what works for them. I could see a situation where you start with single-sig with no passphrase, than as you stack more sats you go to single-sig with a passphrase, then more multi-sig when you stack even more stats.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @hugomofn 9 Jul 2023

Passphrases are simpler but also highly dangerous. If you use passphrases, make sure that you understand their weaknesses first: https://hugonguyen.medium.com/passphrases-are-not-the-solution-for-bitcoin-custody-4f967a339b1b

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @orthwyrm 9 Jul 2023

Some more pros for SS+P:

The wallet balance isn't so easily revealed, as one doesn't need to backup any xPubs.

The backup process itself is much easier (perhaps this is what you mean by "simpler"). For SS+P, everything can be human readable and etched on steel. For multisig you again have the issue of backing up all xPubs, which are either digital or on paper. There should be multiple copies in case of bitrot.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jeanpaultams 8 Jul 2023 freebie

How to use

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @super_testnet 8 Jul 2023

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