My MSNBC Friend \ stacker news ~bitcoin

2677 sats \ 62 comments \ @siggy47 5 Feb bitcoin

A little background: My close friend of almost 50 years is a self described progressive liberal, whatever the hell that means. He literally tapes his favorite MSNBC shows. If she wasn't gay, he would propose to Rachel Maddow. As you might imagine, we don't discuss politics. You may wonder why we're still friends. Our friendship transcends politics. He was best man at my wedding. Why I am posting this is because, about and hour ago, he sent me a text that simply said this:

bitcoin mining uses 2% of the electricity in the US

In the past, when he starts talking about bitcoin, it's usually significant, because it means bitcoin has somehow broken through to his world for a moment. I have no idea where he got this little quote, but I'm sure it's making the rounds. In the past he has been the perfect contrarian indicator. Just saying.

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623 sats \ 5 replies \ @grayruby 5 Feb

It was an stupid article in Ars Techina. Someone posted about it here yesterday. Simple retort to this is 58% of US energy produced is wasted. Bitcoin feeds off this wasted energy so the implication that it accounts for 2% of the electric grid is misleading because that energy would likely never hit the grid and when the grid needs additional power the miners can turn off virtually instantly. That demand response allows for energy producers to add more load, stabilizing grids and build out more renewables.

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @BTCMiner 5 Feb

But most miners aren't set up to power off when the grid needs additional power -- except for some in Texas, and maybe a few others elsewhere. It is technically possible to do, most everywhere, but there is investment and operational costs borne by the miner to make that happen, and essentially no benefit to the miner for doing that -- unless there are agreements in place benefitting the miner for not taking that power.

What is missing is the desire by the producers to take advantage of this opportunity to make use of this "rolling reserve" power source. That may come eventually but the generation plants quite like it being able to charge whatever they want and not have to partner with (i.e., rely on) anybody else to help with the supply.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

Interesting info. Texas has a large number of the mining ops in the US. Have heard some mining operators talk about what you describe here. Trying to convince power producers of their value. Texas is unique as well in the design of its grid. I'm no expert but it has problems but also has some strengths. Demand response seems to be working well there and smart energy producers elsewhere would be wise to study it.

One of the problems in most states is how highly regulated the power producers are themselves. We do not have a free market for power generation. Even Texas which has many different competing producers has a grid operate ERCOT with a monopoly on its position. States like California have companies so regulated by the state that they are private companies in pretty much name only.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @endothermicdev 5 Feb

I didn't follow the last sentence, but you're saying power producers don't like demand response clauses in their power purchase agreements? I was under the impression they were chomping at the bit to even out load what with the duck curve and all.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 5 Feb

Good points.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

Exactly. The masses just gobble up half truths and lies spread by media outlets and idiots on social. Few people really try to understand how things work or realize that their sources are lying to them most of the time.

304 sats \ 3 replies \ @joda 5 Feb

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/check-your-financial-privilege/stranded-bitcoin-saving-wasted-energy-in-africa

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 5 Feb

Can't get a better source than Gladstein.

403 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 5 Feb

that piece should be in the Times.

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

The energy scarcity crowd and the WEF crowd would curse these people to live without energy for another century with their sick policies. Bitcoin could be a huge part of bringing life changing energy resources to people all over the developing world.

442 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

The bitcoin network does use a lot of energy. No one should shy away from that. But many things use a lot of electricity and we never discuss them because we find utility in them. Most of the FUD comes from the work here. But it is actually an interesting site that can be used to combat the anti-bitcoin narrative. If you only look at percentage uses of energy you are missing many subtle points. I've had this energy conversation with many people that have heard the "scary" numbers. They were very ignorant of how electricity grids work and the idea of stranded energy.

Take a look at this site. Look at the energy usage comparisons. Think about the incentives to find the cheapest energy. Gas flaring is one of the coolest. There are so many ways bitcoin is a part of improving energy production and use. The average person just doesn't know about it. They don't understand where their power comes from. How it all works.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 5 Feb

the problem with these arguments is that they aren't convincing if people just think Bitcoin mining is a waste of electricity; It doesn't really matter how much electricity is used by dryers or Christmas lights, because people see value in those. It's also a false dichotomy, because you can always argue to get rid of dryers AND Bitcoin mining; they aren't mutually exclusive.

I think people either need to be shown the value of bitcoin itself, or how mining is helping people in remote areas gain access to electricity by making it profitable to build infrastructure.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

I agree with you.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rock 5 Feb

deleted by author

326 sats \ 1 reply \ @johngribbin 6 Feb

I don't even need to peep lamestream media or bitcoin twitter to know that the latest FUD just dropped.

I have a friend just like yours. Yesterday she reached out to tell me about folks in some state that can't stand the noise of Bitcoin miners and can't sleep.

Then she started on Bukele and how he is Trumpian.

Sometimes I'll take the time to talk through this position that she thinks she holds strongly, only to find she is more aligned with me. We part ways. Then the next FUD drops. Its all so tiresome.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Enemy_of_the_state 6 Feb

“Just cope harder.” 🏴‍☠️

264 sats \ 3 replies \ @quark 5 Feb

what did you reply? I think it is nice that he wants to talk to you about Bitcoin :D it is time to sell? hehe Good idea to not discuss about politics with good friends. Friends are better than politics. Politicians constantly lie everywhere while you can always trust a good friend.

43 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Feb

He knows I had some interest in bitcoin a few years ago. I have never spoken of it again with him because his unhinged hostility to bitcoin pissed me off, and there's nothing uglier than two old friends fighting. So, he probably thinks I have a passing interest. He sends a long stream of political texts all day long. This was just one of many. Even our friends who agree with his politics usually delete his texts unopened.

242 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 5 Feb

He sends a long stream of political texts all day long

This is a bi-product of watching TV news all day. They keep people spun up constantly. People get used to the feeling of being mad. I wonder if he realizes how good of a friend he has in you.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

And lest I sound elitist. Many of us have this issue. It might be Twitter, it might be Nostr, it might be Facebag. It might even be SN. Life is to short to spend worrying about things that are not in your sphere of influence or control. But most of us do it. Some more than others. I know I'm trying to do it less and focus more on what I control. Constant battle to not be distracted by noise.

243 sats \ 2 replies \ @ablunderfilledlife 5 Feb

How much electricity does television use up in the US? He should probably do his part and stop watching MSNBC.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Feb

And the methane produced by those talking heads spouting bullshit. 😀

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ablunderfilledlife 5 Feb

I had to look it up.

3.5% of residential use is for television, which after considering total consumption, puts it at 1.3% of national use.

242 sats \ 9 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

The narrative must be spinning up along with the attack on the miners(DOE survey).

412 sats \ 6 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

Yep, the narrative war is spinning up

44 sats \ 1 reply \ @jgbtc 5 Feb

Wow the comments. There are some really stupid people on there. The level of authoritarianism they want is very disturbing.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

Probably the same people scared to death of fascism taking over... It really is disturbing how quickly people are ready to use the force of the state against others.

44 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Feb

There it is! I knew it came from somewhere. Thanks

360 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 5 Feb

Yeah, came from the DOE apparently. When people start talking about how much energy something uses as a bad thing it makes me wonder do they know how much energy other things use. Its not really a question of how much energy something uses. Its if you think it is worthy of that energy. Even lower level though... its none of my business what someone does with the electricity they buy. They paid for it. When energy is scarce prices go up. When prices go up people are more careful about how they use something. This whole topic is a bunch of nonsense IMO. There's no winning with the people worried about 2% energy use. They don't like bitcoin and they think they have a right to hold a gun to someone's head and force them to stop. Period.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @KLT 5 Feb

This completely. The positive narrative around bitcoin mining will hopefully get through the noise. I’ve been sharing this bitcoin mining bathhouse video and that’s done some good conveying how it’s helpful. People just need to take the time and digest this information and not fall for BS headlines.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @gmd 5 Feb

Wow, haven't browsed Ars in a while but I didn't expect the comments to be so dramatic...

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @AJ1992 5 Feb

I haven't heard one thing about Bitcoin or attacks on miners on MSNBC in the past week. And I'm an almost daily watcher. So stop.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

Wasn't referring to MSNBC but thanks for the info on the topic. Referring to the anti bitcoiners in government. They use all the outlets.

287 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitman 6 Feb

Siggy, it's always nice to hear about your Big Apple life. You've got a really good one it seems.

But when I heard,

He sends a long stream of political texts all day long. This was just one of many. Even our friends who agree with his politics usually delete his texts unopened.

I'm wondering how long he's been like this?

I'm guessing that you, and your friends, are concerned about him, but ironically, this could be having the effect of pushing everyone away from him when he might need the opposite to happen - a nasty feedback loop that might get worse...

Have you, personally, been able to check in on him? To actively listen to what he's saying behind the politics, but also to hear what's not being said.

Sometimes best men need best men.

We know you've got this.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

Pretty insightful, @Bitman. You nailed it. I don't want to delve into all his personal stuff here, but he's had a rough time these past few years- financial, breakup of marriage, etc. He's working through it.

403 sats \ 0 replies \ @OriginalSize 5 Feb

I just checked and my miner needs power and a network connection. Nope, no connector for progressive liberal bullshit.

403 sats \ 4 replies \ @OneOneSeven 5 Feb

"The guy that’s selling the ox cart would say the railroad is too expensive." -Saylor

This made me think of one of Preston's podcasts with Saylor where he's comparing the bitcoin network and the railroad network.

Yes it costs a lot. There's a cost to building the Union Pacific Railroad and connecting the country.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @joda 5 Feb

slavery, in fact.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @9 5 Feb

No need to be hyperbolic

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 6 Feb

https://railroads.unl.edu/topics/slavery.php

not to mention the exploited chinese workers...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Feb

Chinese workers yes but not slavery. The timeline and geography don’t fit

213 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 5 Feb

bitcoin mining uses more than 2% of the electricity in my household, but my household is not representative of the United States :P

213 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 5 Feb

2% seems high to me.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Feb

What is someone told you refrigeration and air conditioning used X percent of electricity. Would you unplug your frig and turn off your AC in the summer or heat in the winter? I think it is a mistake to cede the point. The question isn't how much energy does bitcoin use. The question is do we need freedom money free from the control of the state and its actors. Energy use is a market problem to solve that the market will do just fine solving. Doesn't need some gov agency to poke their nose into it.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Luis 6 Mar

Wait until dryers, heaters and water heaters integrate Bitcoin mining.

385 sats \ 16 replies \ @AJ1992 5 Feb

MSNBC has been rated not nearly as far left as you on the right think they are by numerous independent fact checking and bias checking agencies. I watch MSNBC almost daily but here's the difference between us and you on the right when you guys watch fox or Newsmax or OAN. We realize we are getting a little bit of a left leaning bias on the news. You guys think you're getting the factual news without any bias. If you want middle ground unbiased news check out Al Jazeera America (don't let the Arabic scare you, you can stream it on YouTube for free live in English), and PBS newshour is actually really independent as well. The issue is you guys believe anything that doesn't tell you what you want to hear and what you agree with is "liberal bias" to you.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @Enemy_of_the_state 5 Feb

MSNBC has been rated not nearly as far left as you on the right think they are by numerous independent fact checking and bias checking agencies.

that’s about as far as I needed to read 🤡

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 14 Feb

Same here

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @AJ1992 5 Feb

Typical, anything that doesn't fit your rhetoric and narrative is wrong. Sorry, I trust the independent unbiased fact checking organizations over some right wing extremist like you.

100 sats \ 5 replies \ @anon 5 Feb

Both sides believe this about the other which is sad. "We" are mostly right and when "we" are not right we are aware of our wrongness. This is false 100% of the time by all political groups across the political spectrum across all of human history. Everyone has blind spots. To claim not to is the ultimate self-delusion. If you claim to have no blind spots this is simply 100% proof you do. The only rational way to win this political game is not to play. This is why we have Bitcoin. When voice has failed we can exit and not play fiat games.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @AJ1992 5 Feb

But that viewpoint is privileged, by not being involved in politics you are saying it doesn't affect you so you don't care. That is your privilege showing. When there are groups and politicians trying to take rights away from people based on their sexuality, skin color, gender and other factors, sitting by and not being involved just shows a huge amount of privilege. You're giving those groups a big middle finger by not being involved. This is what I can't stand about most of you Bitcoin maxi's. You think because you have Bitcoin nothing else matters and no one else matters. Satoshi wasn't selfish like this, you guys shouldn't be either.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Enemy_of_the_state 5 Feb

Bitcoin only works because of being selfish. Self-interest is human nature, in fact it is the nature of every living being.

“Groups” don’t matter, nor does “privilege”. Only the individual matters. Bitcoin will destroy the welfare state and with it, politics, and the psychopaths that are drawn to it.

Politics affects me, every day I am stolen from, lied to, and coerced. There is no changing it - the only way is to opt out and unplug from the matrix. Be healthy and live long enough to see the nation-state relegated to the dustbin of history.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @AJ1992 5 Feb

Satoshi wasn't selfish. He was selfless by giving us Bitcoin. This is exactly why he disappeared because he knew Bitcoin would turn people into exactly what you are. He wanted nothing to do with you and your cult like views that many of you Bitcoin maxis have. Maybe you should live like Satoshi did, selflessly. You're just as bad as the Christians that claim to follow Christ yet live their lives in a way that completely goes against everything he taught.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @9 5 Feb

It’s not privileged. You may have more important responsibilities than politics, like spending your time with your kids and helping sick family members. That’s more important that arguing with strangers.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @AJ1992 5 Feb

No, it's privilege. Not voting or voting third party is privilege. Not standing up and fighting alongside those groups that suffer to this day due to laws restricting their rights is privilege.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Feb

PBS is not independent.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @AJ1992 5 Feb

That's why they're right in the dead center of every chart from almost every independently owned and operated bias checking organization? Where's your proof they're not?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 8 Feb

The lying lesbian is my proof

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @AJ1992 9 Feb

Your homophobia reeks. Fuck off. Let me guess you think only straight white men should have rights? Right?