The Homelessness Crisis \ stacker news ~mostly

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15k sats \ 97 comments \ @Undisciplined 22 Feb mostly_harmless

I was sad to see that ~culture folded up shop, but ~mostly_harmless is also a great territory for this discussion. Thanks to @elvismercury for maintaining the space.

The homelessness crisis has escalated to shocking levels in America. If you're familiar with the situation in other countries, I'd love to hear that perspective.

When I was growing up there were a shocking number of homeless people for how inhospitable the local climate was. Everyone sort of knew the cause, though: they had been ostracized from the small towns and villages they were from and basically shipped to the nearest city. Ostensibly, that was because they might find the resources they needed there, but nobody actually believed that.

The scale has increased dramatically since I was a kid. It's to the point where they're literally overflowing their roadside encampments and getting run over at night. My understanding is that the situation is worse in many major cities than it was where I grew up. There were certainly more homeless people in Honolulu when I visited there, but the climate's so nice that I wouldn't necessarily call it a worse situation.

Anyway, what's going on here? Material wealth has increased dramatically over recent history, so why are more people living in such seemingly deprived states?

Is it primarily a result of policy blunders? Cultural decay? Maybe an outcome of our hyper novel environment?

Are there plausible remedies?

I look forward to the discussion.

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36 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

Homelessness has drastically increased in the last 20 years. It is pretty mind blowing to watch. I have heard these causes as the root over and over again.

Breakdown of support systems for people. Their community / family / friends.
Drug / substance addictions which usually leads to the breakdown of support systems
Fewer entry level jobs due to minimum wage, business license requirements. Greater barrier to entry in workforce / business.
Housing costs. Many factors here but in many cities it is hard to build low cost housing due to zoning, codes, and permitting.
Mental health. After the scandals that led to mass closures of mental hospitals following the release of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" many have no place to go.
Drug laws result in people becoming felons and making it even harder to find work, leading them back into crime.

My take is that it is a very complex problem that is primarily created by state policy but not 100% state policy. Some of it is a moral and cultural issue. The break down of society and basic decency. Cities could do a lot more to help but most aren't recognizing the root issues. They focus on housing primarily and throw money at the problem. Many private groups are doing good work but its not enough.

Churches could do more. Many are very active but not enough. One issue I believe contributes to apathy is that many people think, well I pay my taxes. Let the government fix this. Or I payed my fair share. Why should I do anything more. The issue with that is that the government SUCKs and allocating funds. Private orgs are much better. The government is not fixing the issue. They never will. One thing I can tell you is not the cause. Free markets. But, if people do want to see the government become smaller private citizens are going to have to become more active parts of solving the problem.

A few weeks ago I attended a grand opening for a new facility that is doing good work in this space. It has financial support from community members and businesses. They not only feed hungry people but provide job training, safe apartments, counseling, mentoring, and general support to those that want help. It was very encouraging to see how many people were there in support. Over the past ten years at least I've observed cities getting in the way of people trying to help the homeless many times. It makes me angry. The state is evil. Most don't see it. They think when I say this that I mean the people that work in government are evil. That's not what I mean. Its the institution. It does evil. Even when it pretends to be doing good it is producing bad outcomes. I wish the state would get out of the way, stop stealing from us, and remove the barriers that prevent us from solving these problems.

660 sats \ 16 replies \ @bzzzt 22 Feb freebie

i think these are pretty comprehensive..

A thought that comes to mind: Sadly the state mainly creates or exacerbates the crises, but also simultaneously crowds out the previous community and culture that was there to help or alleviate people on hard times..whether it was church ir a small community / town. Now that the state has utterly failed as the caretaker of our needy, we as a society are left with no infrastructure to help.

609 sats \ 12 replies \ @freetx 22 Feb

Sadly the state mainly creates or exacerbates the crises, but also simultaneously crowds out the previous community and culture that was there to help or alleviate people on hard times

YES. For years my mom helped administer her church's food bank program. Over the decades they eventually dropped it because (a) the state floods the market with food stamps, govt food handouts, and (b) the church used to provide its food with some strings attached....meaning you couldn't come in if you were obviously drunk/high and they would help you (ie. push you) to find work if you were obviously able....the state does no such "tough love".

So we've wound up in a situation were those who are best positioned to help (those inside the community who know the people they are helping) are crowded out by the state who simply continually rewards bad behavior.

30 sats \ 5 replies \ @elvismercury 23 Feb

Your position is that the state giving homeless people food is part of the problem? Because there aren't enough strings attached?

25 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 23 Feb

Sure, it sounds bad when you put it like that.

400 sats \ 3 replies \ @elvismercury 23 Feb

I'm not trying to straw man here. But we've got threads in this conversation saying the evil state isn't doing enough, and then comments where feeding people is the evil state causing the problem.

It's a complex issue -- I think we all agree on that. But the goalposts are moving a bit too much for my taste.

331 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 23 Feb freebie

Due to the state's theft from the population and squandering of these funds we have a population that is resentful towards the homeless instead of the true enemy the thief. That said, if you killer all state aid to the needy at once you would have a disaster on your hands. It would need to be transitional and charities would need time to scale up to meet demand. I have no doubt that this could be done and in a few years more people would be helped far more efficiently. Today most people have no connection with how their stolen money is used. If it were voluntary that would be drastically different.

We will always have needy people. We will also have lazy people. The current system lumps them all together and creates divisions that we should reject.

My 2 sats

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 23 Feb

IMO it is not solely a state created problem. We have many cultural issues that are leading to drug abuse. Drug abuse is a massive factor.

25 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 23 Feb

Part of unravelling complex problems is running up against "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.

There's a clear incentive problem with subsidizing homelessness that is directly at odds with helping those who are currently homeless.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

Heard so many stories like this. Some much worse.

123 sats \ 4 replies \ @bzzzt 22 Feb freebie

weve really fucked up so bad in this regard 😔

149 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

There's no we. There's you and the state. One of the biggest lies is that the state is "we the people". It never has been.

207 sats \ 1 reply \ @bzzzt 22 Feb freebie

whether we did it or we let them, we still live in the consequence is what im getting at. but i know what you are distinguishing, agree.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

Yep.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 23 Feb

secret: "We the People" mean "We the Government People"

149 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

You nailed! That's it. Same goes for health care systems and many other areas.

58 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Yes. The need for parallel institutions grows stronger all the time.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

This is the way.

33 sats \ 18 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I'm pinning this comment because it's so good that don't want it to get lost in the shuffle.

If I had taken the time to write my own response to this post, I wouldn't have done so well.

My view on how to approach the problem is based on the same understanding of this issue. There are many factors driving this problem and some are more approachable than others. If we start by undoing some of the bad policies (minimum wage, drug prohibition, etc), that will allow some of the homelessness to dissipate. As more of those marginal cases are dealt with, it will be easier to get a clear picture of what the problem is with the remaining cases.

511 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

Yep, I agree. Also I don't think waiting for that to happen is an option. I don't live in a city. But we are involved in efforts to help those that want help. I think that many people's views on homeless are way off.

There are people that just wanna be bums and use drugs. There are also many people who are completely captive to drug addiction and want to be free of it. Very few can do this on their own. I have lost family to drug addiction. I also know people that lived on the streets, were addicted to drugs and have been able to rebuild their lives through the help of God, people, and organizations. The government is making it worse not better. Your tax dollars aren't gonna fix this.

I will caveat my strong stance on the state by saying that if I was made king the first thing I would cut would not be financial assistance to the homeless. I know enough people that it has helped. But on the whole it isn't good. Its not a solution.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

We're mostly talking about solutions that increase the marginal benefit of not being homeless.

Someone brought up all the "freebies" as part of the explanation. Do you see room for making homelessness more unpleasant (in some dimension) as part of a solution set? I'm certainly not proposing anything inhumane, but even just allowing private property owners to remove them might help in some cities.

457 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

I am 100% in favor of removing government "freebies". I do not support handing out cash to people on the street. It enables drug abuse. I think organizations and individuals are better at deciding what is help and what is enabling self-destructive behavior. Private property rights help. There have been people that have tried to provide housing but were stopped by cities because the state doesn't respect property rights. Many of the functional problems caused by homelessness could be improved if there weren't any "public" property.

I think what these people are doing is amazing. https://mlf.org/

145 sats \ 14 replies \ @grayruby 22 Feb

I can't zap it now though.

657 sats \ 10 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

That's ok. You can zap this I guess. lol.

I didn't know pinning removes zapping... interesting choice of functionality.

145 sats \ 9 replies \ @grayruby 22 Feb

You can zap pinned posts but not comments. Yet.

643 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 22 Feb freebie

You can. If you click on the time, the comment becomes the root item and then you can zap it:

https://m.stacker.news/17171

it's not ideal but it works

133 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 23 Feb

Thanks

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

neat

133 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 22 Feb

I am surprised no one pinged us here haha

view replies

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 23 Feb

Thanks

257 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitman 22 Feb

There's a tediously long way to zap the comment - go to kepford's bio, then posts.

Anyone know if the devs are aware of this?

207 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 22 Feb

Interesting. Wasn't aware of the workaround. Reminds me of nostr when you can't zap a note but you can go to their bio and zap from there.

174 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

I can see that I guess. I would think that if the post is by the OP it should not be able to be zapped but if it is by another then it is OK.

I'm assuming the reason is to avoid gaming zapping.

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Well, shit.

I thought they fixed that.

174 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Feb

No sweat.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 22 Feb

For pinned posts

846 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 22 Feb

I've worked for a homelessness charity in the past and befriended so many in the various places I've lived. Some of whom have passed on since. I have been technically homeless too.

There's great camaraderie within homeless circles, many are really great sweet guys. Being so hand to mouth and feeling every problem so intimately these guys can't help but have sensitive hearts to others.

The difficulties in escaping the cycle of homelessness are many and there's many feedback loops as you'd imagine.

Most people have identified them already: drugs, alcohol, poor mental health, lack of address to get a job, gap in employment history.

Life expectancy is far lower, health and mental health problems are higher and turning to drug use and prostitution is incredibly high too.

I'm deeply heartened to hear of all the support here for our homeless brothers and sisters.

A homeless person's social network is really important to them - it can be the one thing that keeps them feeling totally isolated. However, to help escape from say drug and alcohol abuse, a good way to do it is to get away from your circle of friends who obviously will draw you back into it.

I can't think of any easy way to help solve homelessness. For once, I'm a bit lost for words tbh.

I just wanted to share my experience.

711 sats \ 2 replies \ @ablunderfilledlife 22 Feb

The State of Homelessness Dashboard is an interesting view of what might be your area. Paritcularly interesting are the rates of homelessness between individuals and families, those who are sheltered and those who are unsheltered.

Many places that shelter and support homeless families are over capacity while shelters available to individuals are woefully underused. Why? Maybe motivation to find support is higher among those with others to take care of. Maybe housing a family takes more resources (real estate, security, specialized training, etc.) and therefore the supply barely meets the demand.

You can find demographic breakdowns based on race and veteran status very easily, but I would be interested to see the economic backgrounds of homeless individuals, something of a submeasure of economic mobility. That is information I have yet to find--what portion of homeless individuals grew up in poverty compared to those who did not?

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Thanks for sharing.

What immediately jumps out to me is how much this is a West Coast issue (Plus, NYC and DC).)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ablunderfilledlife 22 Feb

Not too disimiliar to a red state / blue state map

667 sats \ 4 replies \ @elvismercury 22 Feb

This is such a giant topic, but one more ingredient for the stew:

I'm curious about how the shift in the constituents of the economy intersects all of this. On the one hand, it seems (from my privileged perspective) that there's a mountain of high-paying jobs waiting to be had. Granted, you need special skills; but it's also true that as long as you have access to a computer and an internet connection, you can acquire those special skills for free! You can get a better education than was possible for 99% of the world, for free, anywhere with an internet connection, right now.

I mention that to raise the following point: once upon a time, if there was work to be had, it probably didn't take that much to be qualified for it. Most of my family were laborers of various sorts. You showed up and after a little training you sacrificed the integrity of your body for a paycheck. Not super self-actualizing, but open to everyone.

Now, if you don't have certain intellectual skills, or the right temperament, those things are all closed to you. And I don't think being a laborer is viable for almost anyone.

I know this is a very mainstream topic, and I don't know anything about it other than the hot take given above, but it seems intuitively relevant that if you fall off the conveyer belt that prepares you for the modern economy, it's really hard to get back on. You probably don't transition from living under a bridge to a job in the information economy the way you could in the industrialized era.

554 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I'm going to reply to you and @siggy47 here, because he made a related point.

Supposedly, there's been a sharp increase in the share of people who would have been working class in previous years, but are now unemployable for the reasons you laid out. This was something Jordan Peterson was very concerned about and he cited a figure that something like 16% of the working age population is not capable of productive work.

I'm not sure I buy into that story. There are so many other things going on that I'm not ready to conclude that this is just a fact of our modern economy, but it is clearly part of what is happening.

There's another phenomenon that seems relevant, which is the sharp rise in entry-level wages (or at least offers). I haven't seen this reflected in labor data, but for the past decade I've noticed advertisements for jobs (often unpleasant ones) that were offering two or three times what a job like it used to pay. Somehow, we have both a huge pool of unemployed low-skill people and a bunch of employers desperately seeking entry-level workers.

457 sats \ 2 replies \ @elvismercury 23 Feb

There are so many other things going on that I'm not ready to conclude that this is just a fact of our modern economy, but it is clearly part of what is happening.

Same. It's worth more than zero, but less than everything. The nuance that seems most important to me is not "are some people too dumb to work in the jobs favored by the modern economy" which would be a more extreme rendition of JBP's point; but "after you've made enough bad decisions to be in danger of homelessness, have you got yourself into a corner s.t. you can't get on board in the modern economy." I think the two are related and not identical.

Somehow, we have both a huge pool of unemployed low-skill people and a bunch of employers desperately seeking entry-level workers.

I posted about this at some point -- am very very interested in the topic because I just can't fathom how it's possible. And yet it's right there, in front of us. So bizarre.

27 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 23 Feb

Even practicing labor economists don't know what's going with entry-level employment trends. We're missing something important, though.

after you've made enough bad decisions to be in danger of homelessness, have you got yourself into a corner s.t. you can't get on board in the modern economy

Then again, you hear about people getting out of prison after decades and starting back up. My dad worked with inner-city kids for a long time and one of the things that stuck with me from that is how some people overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles and others just can never get out of their own way.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 23 Feb

There's no question that some people can surmount any hellish depths you can imagine, just like some people can smoke for 50 years and die of natural causes. It gets less likely as you stack the deck against them, though.

587 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 22 Feb

I guess the obvious answer is that the cost of living has risen faster and higher than most people's incomes, especially with regard to food and housing. Income inequality has gotten more severe, and who we're seeing on the streets now would have been "working class" 10 years ago. Why? My answer is a cliche here. The fiat system is unraveling due to debasement of the dollar.

350 sats \ 1 reply \ @nkmg1c_ventures 22 Feb

Can't improve wages and invest in real capital growth when everyone is servicing debt and handing out easy credit money to insiders who vanish and don't have to deal with the social cost

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Fix the money, fix the world. Neat idea.

703 sats \ 4 replies \ @k00b 22 Feb

For people that aren't suffering from extreme circumstances, we need to flip the question around: why live in a home and have a job?

To start the family that all but few are starting? To spend 60 hours/week gigging so you can sleep in an Ikea bed and rack up credit card debt? To have room for your parents to visit that were too busy working or escaping from work to ever bond with you, who are still too busy working or suffering from a life of unfulfilling work and regret to visit now? To grind for a flatlined, hopeless, and unfulfilling existence that you can't take pride in? To give your life's energy to people that treat you like trash while worshipping random people from their many screens?

Drugs and homelessness are meeting more and more people's needs better than our culture and economy.

I involuntarily think about this everyday. I pass 10-20 homeless people on my walks. I pass so many homeless that once a week one of them will walk and talk with me or stop me to talk. Many of these people are choosing this, suffering as they are, because the alternatives are just that much worse. And, to be honest, for some of the ones that haven't lost their minds or been totally taken by drugs, they seem happier and freer than most normal people I cross on my walks.

525 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

MB_Homeless - MC_Homeless > MB_Housed - MC_Housed

MB: Marginal Benefit MC: Marginal Cost

I think I generally agree that the focus should be on the right hand side of the inequality.

457 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 22 Feb

Exactly. I imagine change in the right side is driving this more than anything.

MB_Housed seems culturally derived, at historical lows, and impossible to address directly. MB_Homeless is roughly fixed.

Seems like we're left with either increasing MC_Homeless or decreasing MC_Housed.

496 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I actually think many of the poor policy choices are reducing the marginal benefit of being housed. Anything that makes gainful employment more difficult would fit into that category: minimum wage, occupational licensing, felony convictions for bs victimless crimes, etc.

However, bringing down the marginal cost of housing seems like the most direct approach.

208 sats \ 0 replies \ @doofus 22 Feb

Drugs and homelessness are meeting more and more people's needs better than our culture and economy.

Very deep thought. Thanks for the insight this morning.

488 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 22 Feb

I think the homeless situation has gotten worse everywhere. Even the small town I live in, it is routine to see homeless people sitting outside of the bank begging for change as people come out or people standing at the entrance of the walmart parking lot asking for change or food as cars turn in or out.

I have heard from a close friend who drives into downtown Toronto daily for work that the tent encampments underneath the gardiner expressway (highway into downtown Toronto) overpasses have been growing out of control.

I think cost of living, addiction, mental health are the largest causes. I don't think the shelter system is safe so many choose the street instead.

Better money would be a good start but I know it's not the only solution.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I don't think the shelter system is safe so many choose the street instead.

That's interesting. The problem I've heard is that shelters often put restrictions in place about drug use or other conduct and many people choose the street where they can do what they want.

478 sats \ 5 replies \ @Taft 22 Feb

Anyway, what's going on here? Material wealth has increased dramatically over recent history, so why are more people living in such seemingly deprived states?

Yes, it's true. Material wealth has increased significantly over the years, but the distribution of that wealth is not equal. This leads to disparities in living conditions among different populations.

Income inequality has widened in many countries, despite the overall economic growth. The wealthiest individuals and corporations often accumulate a disproportionate share of the wealth, leaving a significant portion of the population with relatively low incomes.

In many urban areas, the cost of living has risen dramatically, particularly in terms of housing, healthcare, and education. This can make it difficult for individuals with lower incomes to afford necessities and maintain a decent standard of living.

Many people, particularly those in marginalized communities, face barriers to accessing education, healthcare, and employment opportunities. This can perpetuate cycles of poverty and deprivation, limiting individuals' ability to improve their circumstances.

These can be, in my opinion, some of the reasons.

5 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

So, some sort of poverty trap that's been getting stronger as our society bifurcates?

123 sats \ 2 replies \ @Taft 22 Feb

What do you think about this @Undisciplined?

15 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

It fits into the point @elvismercury was making about how it's becoming more difficult to even qualify for jobs.

People growing up in poverty might not have the social networks to connect them to opportunities and they're stuck in abysmal government schools that give them no preparation for the workforce.

I'm generally skeptical of poverty trap explanations, but it's a reasonable hypothesis.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taft 22 Feb

Oh, yes. That's a good point! I agree!

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taft 22 Feb

I think, yes. But there are other factors, too.

467 sats \ 7 replies \ @SimpleStacker 22 Feb

A good book to read on this topic is San Fran Sicko by Michael Shellenberger. It offers an inside look into the ideology that permeates many homeless advocacy orgs and how they are actually a barrier to solving the problems

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 24 Feb

Solve the problem, lose your livelihood

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 24 Feb

yep

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Thanks, that sounds interesting.

467 sats \ 3 replies \ @Signal312 22 Feb

Yeah, also look online for info on the Homeless Industrial Complex. It's a real thing. It's how you can spend billions of dollars on "the homeless" and have the situation be far worse than it was before.

I've heard numerous stories about some of these nonprofits actually "seeding" an area for homelessness. They will actually put up tents in an area, and encourage people to move in them. And also give away free tents. They really don't want the problem to go away, because then their job goes away.

123 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 22 Feb

Some homeless advocates make 340k per year

483 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 24 Feb

Just saw this post - Institutions try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution. It points to this article: https://effectiviology.com/shirky-principle/.

This is very applicable to the Homeless Industrial Complex. They are definitely NOT trying to solve the problem of homelessness. They're trying to make the problem bigger, to keep and expand their jobs.

There's so many examples of this that I encounter in day to day life.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 24 Feb

That's the fundamental problem of single issue or special interest activist organizations.

458 sats \ 5 replies \ @Signal312 22 Feb

I think this is not the only reason for homelessness, but is definitely an unexplored one - basically Cheap housing has been regulated out of existence.

I read a bunch of Horatio Alger "rags to riches" books at one point in my life (long story, basically I was procrastinating and they happened to be around where I was hanging out in the library).

Anyway, in these books, the hero would often step up from living on the street, to living in extremely cheap accommodations like a 5 cents a night bunk in a hostel, to renting a dingy room for a dollar a week, to renting a nicer room, etc.

Also in England there were options like the two penny hangover.

https://m.stacker.news/17127

That's impossible nowadays, due to regulations. Nobody can make money offering super cheap lodging.

Another one is - there's so many freebies available in many cities that people get in the mode of not needing to worry about earning enough money to support themselves. But people have to do something with their time, so it contributes to a cycle of addiction, crime, not being able to hold a job, etc.

123 sats \ 1 reply \ @nkmg1c_ventures 22 Feb

I recall reading that in Toronto (Ontario, Canada), boarding houses and other cheaper setups were phased out and looked down upon during more conservative decades (pre-WW2 in particular). They didn't want spinsters (lesbians), bachelors (gays), and other anti-establishment types (bohemians, anti-government types, communists) to alter the character of traditional neighbourhoods. Pretty wild stuff.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Interesting

34 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I just mentioned your point about cheap housing in this comment.

I also agree about the increase in freebies. This is one of the explanations why so many poor people in general live in very expensive urban areas: that's where the various forms of welfare are collected.

815 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 22 Feb

Yes, and another set of regulations that I forgot to mention are everything that makes a city landlord-unfriendly. Many (most? all?) leftist cities are like this. Once you rent to someone, you basically can't get them out, no matter what. You start hearing stories of people needing to hire motorcycle gangs to get renters out of their home.

Small landlords can't handle this.

I knew a lady with a 4-plex - 4 townhouses, all in a row, in a leftist, west coast city. She lived in one, and had a trusted renter in another. She hadn't been renting the other two out because of fears over bad renters. Within a year she sold the place to a large company.

This type of thing, over and over, gets you what we have today.

157 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 23 Feb

I have a friend who was a landlord -- owned like 12 houses in low-income areas, managed them all himself (he's a construction guy and knew how to do all the things). The stories he would tell about that experience would make a bestselling Netflix series, except it could never be told, would be canceled so hard it would wipe anyone involved from the face of the earth.

That was the beginning of a re-thinking for me about how human societies / governments work, actually. Never really considered that before.

457 sats \ 1 reply \ @nkmg1c_ventures 22 Feb

I posted an interesting proposed solution I came across yesterday -- endowment funds held in perpetuity to address homelessness.

The solution will likely meet political opposition because it takes away corrupt governments' cash cow of cheap labour and taxation.

#434123

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

There's an interesting point about how activism morphs into industry over time. The incentives are not good for activist organizations to actually solve problems.

I've also wondered if we'll see more endowment type structures for provision of public goods.

457 sats \ 1 reply \ @gnilma 22 Feb

I think the homelessness is especially high in cities that are more temperate and have a red hot real estate market, places like LA, Seattle, Vancouver BC. Some government policies definitely don't help. Here are a few things that come to mind when it comes to homelessness.

Temperate cities allows the homeless to survive the heat of summer and the cold of winter.
Cities with a hot real estate market are usually desirable places to live or places with high income earning people. In both cases, due to fiat being a horrible store of value, real estate had become a store of value for people with excess money. When housing is monetized, it prices out a lot of lower income earning people, be it owning or renting. People simply cannot afford a place to live, so they move to the streets.
Minimum wage laws are making people unemployable. A business owner cannot sustainably overpay an employee (pay them more than what the employee help them make) or the business will fail. Without minimum wage laws, the low skilled people actually have a chance to get a job and learn more skills to increase their income. With minimum wage laws, many low skilled people simply cannot find work and rely on government handouts to survive.
I think homelessness has fiat written all over it. It might not be completely fixed under a bitcoin standard, but I think it will, at the minimum, greatly improve.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Those are the points I generally bring up with my left-wing family member who live in those places.

I also include all the zoning regulations, building codes, and NIMBYism that prevent affordable housing from being built. Then I get going about occupational licensing and mass incarceration and ....

457 sats \ 3 replies \ @justanumber 22 Feb freebie

Agree with siggy, cost of living rising higher than wages, fiat system. I'd add the breakdown of society, breakdown of the extended family, breakdown of people's mental health, addiction, hopelessness, demoralisation. It's all on purpose and planned by our wonderful (evil) overlords. (I'm not just talking about America here. I can't because I've never been lol.)

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I'd add the breakdown of society, breakdown of the extended family, breakdown of people's mental health, addiction, hopelessness, demoralisation.

I've brought this up a few times on other posts. There seems to be an enormous mismatch between our high level of material wealth and our low levels of flourishing.

Where are you talking about, btw? I'm fascinated by how universal some of these trends seem to be.

123 sats \ 1 reply \ @justanumber 22 Feb

I'm talking specifically western countries, especially, for those issues. I know people who are in London where there seems to be a huge uptick in vagrancy, druggy, anti-social behaviour... I mean, London is, well, London, but I feel like places that are very well known (like London and other big centres) for homelessness will be the first marker or symptom of a wider problem in the world.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justanumber 22 Feb

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260 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 6 Mar

This book came on my radar recently - Build Baby Build- https://www.amazon.com/Build-Baby-Science-Housing-Regulation/dp/1952223415. I'm looking forward to reading it when it comes out. Bryan Caplan has some great takes.

Here's the blurb:

In this exciting new graphic novel, economist Bryan Caplan examines how changes to housing regulation can lead us to a vastly better world.

Why are housing prices in America so unbelievably high, especially in the country's most desirable locations? The superficial answer is “supply and demand,” but the deep answer―the reason supply is so low―is a regulatory system that treats developers like criminals.

In Build, Baby, Build: The Science and Ethics of Housing Regulation, economist Bryan Caplan makes the economic and philosophical case for radical deregulation of this massive market―freeing property owners to build as tall and dense as they wish. Not only would the average price of housing be cut in half, but the building boom unleashed by deregulation would simultaneously reduce inequality, increase social mobility, promote economic growth, reduce homelessness, increase birth rates, help the environment, cut crime, and more.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 6 Mar

That should be really good. The two Caplan books I've read are excellent.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 22 Feb

The problem is not financial. Most homeless people have drug addiction or mental illness or both.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinosphere 22 Feb freebie

Homelessness is big business for municipal governments. It's the LAST thing they want to solve.

41 sats \ 4 replies \ @Ge 22 Feb

In all texts dating back to biblical and babylonian times there has always been the poor I don't think it's a problem that will ever be fixed there will always be those who just want handouts...sure there are some bad luck scenarios which sucks but for the majority it just is what it is...

123 sats \ 1 reply \ @justanumber 22 Feb

I agree there is that element, plenty of people who don't want to work. It's something in society that we are often forbidden to point out (especially in left leaning circles) yet it exists, whether we want to admit it or not. I don't think homelessness is cut and dry, there are many factors. There are some people who actually don't want help. They don't want to be taken "back into the system" as it were.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

Along the lines your discussing, homelessness is not inherently something that needs to be solved. I've known completely functional homeless people, who had regular jobs, and just preferred to spend their money on hobbies.

It is important to disentangle homeless by choice and homeless by circumstance.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I totally agree with that, but the size of that population has noticeably changed.

A mantra of empirical work is "Changes explain changes.": for example, we wouldn't attribute an increase in plane crashes to gravity, even though gravity is the cause of every plane crash.

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @Ge 22 Feb

Can take a horse to water but can't make them drink it...I believe all this can be traced back to keynesian economics.... John Keynes look at the way he went out a crazy insane lonely depressed man...look at the spike in all these symptoms in the world today...we are running the system this man created so naturally symptoms of this system trickle down into the population

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @PlebeiusG 22 Feb

Anti-police bullshit has made it worse for sure. It allows a life of petty theft and criminality to be a legitimate life choice.

Also, drugs. We need to secure the border. If you're homeless you're on drugs almost without exception.

Im portland, or you can do whatever you want and the police allow it. Woke politics are making it so much worse.

15 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 23 Feb

In the words of Benjamin Franklin "Fuck the Police"

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 22 Feb

I meant to include a link to this Kim Iversen clip, because it's what sparked the idea for this post.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 22 Feb

I thought all you had to do was make coffee at home?