My father used to read the newspaper obituaries every morning during breakfast. I’d hear him murmur “beat that guy, beat that guy, beat that guy” as he worked his way down the page. I think he did it for comic effect, but I was never sure. He was in his 60s at the time, around the same age I am now.
My dad never really retired. He worked hard his whole life. He was a successful businessman. By the time he reached that age when people stop working to take it easy, he was more than financially secure enough to sit by the pool and sip drinks all day, or play a few rounds of golf. He did neither. When he and my mom made the traditional migration to Florida like all New Yorkers of their generation, my mother joined flower clubs and played mahjong, and made lots of friends. My father began making investments in local businesses and spent his retirement at his desk, or on the phone, arguing with people. The other men in the retirement community golfed or sat in the clubhouse bar, drinking afternoon cocktails.
I asked him why he didn’t stop working and take it easy. He was shocked. “What do you mean? I am taking it easy.” He insisted he was happiest while playing the game of business. Don’t get me wrong, my parents had fun. They traveled a lot, went out to dinner with friends, and seemed very happy. It was just that my dad was happiest working on some business venture or another. He was still working when he died.
People who knew my father saw him as a happy, carefree person. He cultivated that image. His immediate family knew better, though.
My dad was scarred from his childhood. He was a first generation Italian American, raised in a poor section of Brooklyn New York, just as the Great Depression was kicking in. His father was an uneducated immigrant who worked as a janitor when he could find work. He didn’t find any work during the depression, so instead he drank. Life wasn’t pleasant at home. My grandmother brought sewing piecework in to make some money, but it was never enough. When the economy improved, my grandfather still didn’t work much. By then he was a full time drinker.
As a result, my dad always felt insecure about money, no matter how wealthy he grew. He passed on his values to me. The message was clear. A man’s role was to work hard and make enough money to support his family. It’s an old school notion, rooted in sexism and traditional gender roles, but it’s who I am at my core. There’s not much I can do about it now, even if I wanted to. And I don’t.
By the time Satoshi wrote the white paper, I was already living a low time preference life. I thought of it as saving for a rainy day, and it came naturally. I joked with my friends that all I needed was a room with a comfortable chair and a tv set and I was happy. Once the internet came out I swapped that tv for a computer. Don’t get me wrong. I wasn’t a buddhist monk, but I always made sure to live below my means.
I must also mention that I’m a person who has trouble living in the moment. My brain is constantly thinking about and preparing for future events. I have flirted with eastern philosophies in an attempt to live in the moment, with limited success.
When I discovered bitcoin many things about it confused me. I was older and not technically brilliant. I’m still learning. The one thing no one needed to explain to me, though, was the idea of low time preference. That came naturally.
Now I’m old myself. I’m semi retired, but have trouble fully shedding all my work responsibilities. I first bought bitcoin in early 2018. I didn’t buy much. I was drawn in by the hype of the 2017 bull market and got discouraged by the bear that followed. Still, I never sold a sat. It wasn’t until 2020 that I fully embraced bitcoin. Once that happened, any excess money I had after paying my family’s expenses went to bitcoin. I have never sold a sat. I do spend bitcoin for the things I need whenever I can. I don’t think of it as diamond hands. It’s just something that never, ever occurs to me. I was like that with my fiat savings too. We have a good life. We have everything we need.
My wife and I talk about retirement. We talk about how to spend our golden years. She naturally talks about things that cost significant fiat dollars. When it comes right down to it, I can’t bear the thought of trading my precious bitcoin for fiat to buy this stuff. That’s the case even though the actuarial tables tell me I might have 10 more years, if I’m lucky. If I’m being honest, I don’t care. I still don’t want to sell my bitcoin. I do feel foolish at times that I’m still having trouble living in the present when I may not have much future left.
I am a Pink Floyd fan. A lyric that always stuck in my head when I was young was “no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.” I think of that a lot now. I’m at the point where no one is telling me where the finish line is.
this territory is moderated
1100 sats \ 3 replies \ @Car 6 Mar
My younger brother and I share a unique bond that diverged as we entered our teenage years. He chose to serve in the war, while I pursued going to school and creative endeavors. Despite our different paths, we make it a point to connect, once a year, usually an eight-hour conversation to catch up on our lives. These moments remind me of the lyrics:
How I wish, how I wish you were here We're just two lost souls Swimming in a fish bowl Year after year Running over the same old ground What have we found? The same old fears Wish you were here
I always ask him the same question that I ask you, “Would you do anything different?” Let’s say you knew you had 20 more years?
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Probably not. Like I said, I'm pretty content. I have a family I love. The basics are covered. I don't want to sound like some kind of great altruist. I have fun. Regarding bitcoin, I really do still have the idealistic notion that it can help change the world for the better, despite all this ETF stuff.
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That song is running a loop in my head a lot. "Would you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role in a cage? "
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 8 Mar
ya thats def why it resonates
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729 sats \ 0 replies \ @mx12art 6 Mar
I read your story, and it hit home. Your dad's work ethic and your own journey with money and Bitcoin are fascinating. Your commitment to living below your means and embracing Bitcoin later in life is admirable. I get your hesitation about spending Bitcoin for retirement. It's like trading something precious for something less valuable.
The Pink Floyd lyric you mentioned sums it up nicely – life's a race, but sometimes we miss the starting gun. Your journey, shaped by experiences and guided by Bitcoin, is pretty cool.
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827 sats \ 4 replies \ @freetx 6 Mar
HA! Wow does this resonate.
I'm probably a decade younger than you, but my parents were Silent Generation (born during Great Depression). My moms first memory was seeing her mother warm up a cup milk over a candle in a no-electricity boarding house they lived in.
Like many of that generation, they were big savers. Somehow (and I dont know how), they managed to save enough to fund a nice retirement including a home near a lake. Us kids were inculcated with their beliefs about money... we were constantly forced to think about "the value of X" - forced to do in-depth analysis of any potential purchase against a myriad of variables (do you really need that? can't you make do with X? is it better deal to purchase this instead? etc)
My lifestyle is a reflection of that. I'm driving a 20 yr old Toyota right now....have a iPhone 11, etc....even tho I have more than enough to enjoy all the latest and greatest. The fact remains that "saving / low time-preference" is so deeply built in me that I can't help but view the world in this way.
I often think about the idea that for the past 40-50 years there has been a systemic bias against savers, as slow fiat collapse induced consumption.....I think about how the emergence of bitcoin being sort of a environmental change in which "savers" were suddenly rewarded. Almost as if it was natural counterbalance. A natural selection process of unwinding the current system into a new system. One in which people like us were uniquely prepared to engage....
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My Toyota is only 18! Our upbringings are so similar. The common denominator is the Great Depression, I guess. I always had to justify every purchase. In my family there was plenty of Italian Catholic guilt tossed in too. My grandparents' childhoods in southern Italy were pretty rough.
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52 sats \ 0 replies \ @freetx 6 Mar
Our upbringings are so similar.
raised catholic too!
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @drlh 21 Apr
for the past 40-50 years there has been a systemic bias against savers
GDP's formula is: GDP = C + G + I + NX C = Consumption G = Total government spending I = Investment NX = Net exports
There are no savings here, only spending. Even war will contribute to economy with this formula.
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Great post! It's interesting to reflect on how our parents shape us.
My own parents were extremely hard workers their entire lives, but we were never that financially well-off. Some of that had to do with their choice to live in one of the most expensive places in the country, but mostly it was because of my dad's poor health.
The signals to me were something like "Take care of your health and you can afford to take work a little less seriously." and "Make wise financial and career decisions, so that you don't have to work yourself to death."
I'm sure you've mentioned elsewhere, but what's your wife's attitude towards your stacking habit?
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She is supportive and actually enjoys WBD podcasts. She went from liberal democrat to libertarian purely as a result of covid lockdowns, so she's almost there.
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68 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 6 Mar
Are you sure your libertarianism didn't play a role? I know my lovely wife has been influenced by my bent to overanalyze everything.
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I just asked her. She reminded me about the time 25 years ago when I dragged her to a local LP meetup. She thought they were a bunch of lunatics. I'm pretty sure she came upon it on her own.
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Maybe there will be a Bitcoin cruise, or something like that, so you can meet halfway on your retirement visions.
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Hey! Business idea. My dad would have been all over it.
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It could be you! At the rate bitcoin's appreciating, I imagine you'll be able to buy a cruise ship outright pretty soon.
That's an even better compromise, right? You're doing bitcoin stuff and your wife's sipping pina coladas poolside.
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I must also mention that I’m a person who has trouble living in the moment. My brain is constantly thinking about and preparing for future events. I have flirted with eastern philosophies in an attempt to live in the moment, with limited success.
Me thinking about the eastern philosophies classes i used to take for this same reason o.0 xD
Great post Siggy. That Pink Floyd line hits hard.
How i see it, at the end of the day, Bitcoin only enriches your life if you use it to do so. Holding it for the next generation is noble, but so is enjoying the life you've earned! Spend some coin on her! We wont tar & feather here
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As a result, my dad always felt insecure about money, no matter how wealthy he grew.
Sounds familiar. My folks both grew up poor, but my dad was comically poor, rural-living-in-a-shack-and-hungry poor. He has never, ever kicked it, and that mindset has caused a lot of angst, though, ironically, my siblings and I openly discuss how his pathology has also probably been the reason why my folks are relatively comfortable now.
And so, a pattern: the problem giving rise to its own solution, which the problem prevents you from adopting. Kind of lovely, actually, like a big cat that's about to kill you.
I always thought that the role of btc is the same as the role of anything, which is to help you to live a good life. I'm walking the same road with bitcoiners for like half the way, bc there is something important in asking what it means to live a good life, and digging into the defaults society wants to give you. Many of them do not hold up under scrutiny.
But two road diverge half-way through the wood, and I part ways at that point bc btc is not a fetish for me. Stacking is a tool. If my stash ever becomes life-changing in size, I'll treat it the same way I treat my table saw. I get that this will be easier said than done, for some, but I'm sure of my conclusion.
I don't want to miss the starting gun. It only goes off once.
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There are things about your reply that resonate with me too. I didn't go into great detail in the post, but poverty scars people. My dad was a larger than life figure, and it wasn't always easy being his only son. As a young man I saw him as a bully. He was tough on me. Like everyone, I still carry that baggage. It wasn't until I was much older and had my own family that I realized how insecure he was as a result of his own childhood.
Regarding bitcoin and maximalism, I really think that none of us have the right to judge each other on things like when to sell. I didn't fully explain this in my post, but my family and I live very well. I still have a substantial fiat income, which we spend. I'm not being miserly, and would sell my stash in a split second if someone I love needed it.
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"I must also mention that I’m a person who has trouble living in the moment. My brain is constantly thinking about and preparing for future events." I wish there was a switch to turn it off. There really is no escaping it I swear.
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What you say about working all your life, I also observe that here in Portugal. I know several people who are already at retirement age who refuse to stop working. I've asked them why they do this and the answer is unanimous, "If I don't work, I'll die of boredom." It's not for money reasons. I don't quite understand this way of being yet, maybe because I still have many years ahead of me before I reach that age. When I get there, maybe I'll understand.
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I noticed this everywhere around the world. The problem is the mind and ego controls the people and not the other way around. Nothing on this planet worth more than a peace of mind.
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  • A lyric that always stuck in my head when I was young was “no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.” I think of that a lot now
I look around and wonder how life got away from me. Just keep on keeping on…
And your Dad sounds like a hell of a guy but as you say, the product of a time and situation.
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Sometimes I think that what I think about as "my ideas" are really just fragments of song lyrics floating in my head. Of course I thought of a few with your keep on keeping on (end of Blues Power Derek & The Dominoes)
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Not sure I can be of much help, being less than half your age, but since you mention Florida, I would throw out looking at the possibility of El Salvador to spend fewer sats, depending on what you like. I wouldn't underestimate the health benefits of an even more tropical climate than Florida and how that might improve quality of life. Of course, more reliable medical systems in Florida, but a new hospital is being built in El Salvador that will change that.
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That's a very nice message. Appreciate it, thank you! 🙏 One of my question is why don't you start living in the now? You clearly recognise that you have trouble to stay in the now. Which is by the way 99% of people's reality. I do recommend you to do not miss the point of Now. Because the rest does not existed. Only the stillness in the now can satisfy you. You may collect pleasures with your money, but not happiness. I believe that we all should spend our bitcoins on things that really matter to us. Our time is limited, so why not enjoy the benefits of our actions?
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Great post! No matter how much bitcoin I have someday I cannot see myself retiring. It sounds boring. But there are things I would work on that are either to risky now or not profitable enough. I am of the belief that the idea of retirement is not a good one. But that's me. I think we need to do something that we know is providing value to the world. I know I do.
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We are cut from the same cloth. My retirement goal is to build some territories here that manage to break even.
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I need to write something like this myself. I am in a transitional phase of fatherhood and I've been in deep thought about many things. Writing is a key part of processing things for me, and probably many others.
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You should. I also learn from the replies I get. Sometimes I assume that people I like and respect think exactly as I do. I know that's stupid. The replies often teach me a lot and sometimes modify or change my opinions.
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108 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6 Mar
This is why so many people appreciate your writing here including me.
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
~ Proverbs 18:2
It is rare to read people online that aren't arrogant fools.
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Thanks for sharing my grandparents were first generation immigrants from Italy as well. I’m the one to go to college as well. I’m scarred as well from my families upbringing and frugalness. I try to be a bot better, but my wife and her family are similar. We’re doing our best with our kids, but I’m a daily stacker for life!
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It is a joy to not know how much time you have left.
Knowing that would remove one of the great unknowns from life; and at our age it sharpens our sense of what is worthwhile and lasting, and what is transient. That in turn drives decisions about where to invest time and energy - just as it was for your Dad. Whilst we have different backgrounds, I can resonate with your Dad's later life of continuing to want to provide value (which at later life tends to be advice and capital); sitting by the pool drinking cocktails for years isn't my idea of a good time either.
If today was your last day, what would you do today? That focuses the mind on priorities like nothing else.
Great post - thanks!
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"So, do you think you can tell..?" :-) It is I believe a generational thing. Our parents were told to "work hard" and at some point that made sense, I'm more of a believer in "work smart" and also looking around and seeing what you have and whether you are content with it or not. It's YOU that matters and not the people around you. Jerry Seinfeld once admitted that he has 32 Porsches (one for each day of the month) and one reporter asked him: "Hey Jerry, do you really need 32 Porsches?" He said: "Of course not, I just love those darn things" I mean, he wasn't happy when he got 12 or 14 of them, his goal was 32, so he got there and he is OK with it. Some people need 32 Porshes, some people need a chair and a few books to read. To each his own. I don't think I understand the word retire either, retire and then what? "Find something you love and you will never work a day in your life" is another pretty solid cliche that actually works. I do not see myself retiring at any point in my life. Your Father never really retired either, he just changed jobs...lol It is one thing to be able to pay your bills and be comfortable and another to keep up with the Joneses. Both of my GrandDads were farmers, they were never rich but somehow they always got money and always were happy (relatively, they always find a way to bitch about something). I always looked up to them and thought, I wanna be like them when I grow up. There is no finish line ( I mean there is, we die eventually) just live your life like it is your last day and dance like no one is watching...lol (well, ok, we know you can't dance :-)) . Bitcoin gives you comfort, you have stash on the side and you know you can use it if need be, but probably never will. As far as eastern minds are concerned, I think they are onto something. Breathe, watch the sunrise, smell the coffee and enjoy life. Have a smile, have fun while you at it, no one is getting out alive anyway....lol
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Thanks for this incredible reply. I could have included every word in my post. I intentionally avoided more Pink Floyd quotes 😀
"Find something you love and you will never work a day in your life" is another pretty solid cliche that actually works.
I almost included this in my post, but thought it was too cliched. It's a cliche for a reason.
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Wow. This is a hell of a post Siggy. Thanks for sharing.
Living on your own terms is living the good life my friend.
I once wrote "Time is not infinite for humans; We are merely surfing on a giant rock spiraling through the cosmos for an undetermined number of trips around the sun. Individually, a blip on the long tail of the arrow of time. Collectively, who knows?"
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Very true. I'm going to a funeral wake tonight for a close friend's 35 year old daughter. Who knows, indeed.
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Damn. That's tough.
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Thanks for sharing your experience.
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I think low time preference people understand that you don't 'only live once'. And thus are not 'YOLO' hedonists.
The concept of having a 'golden retirement' and, going further, 'spending the kid's inheritance' is a consumerist con. The sort of retirement that's so often portrayed in (advertising) media is actually a descent into a sterile, empty life, e.g. lounging by the pool, playing golf, going on cruises, etc.
There's a concept, I think from eastern religious traditions, of dividing your life into thirds. The first third is growing up, learning about the world. The middle third is about being in the world, working, building, having a family, etc. But the last third is, generally speaking, the 'spiritual' third. It's somewhat of a retreat from the secular world and the focus moves towards spiritual growth. We're here in this life to grow, to purify or cleanse our souls (or however you want to put it, according to your own beliefs). The final third of our life is for ppl who have trodden 'the middle way' or who have led the householder life (Buddhist terminology) to finally move more of their focus on to growing spiritually, ahead of their coming ego death.
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Good post especially the three part life.
I would love to play golf ⛳️ 3 times a week and go to the gun range twice a week
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This ser is a beautiful piece. Well done.
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First, I must commend the size of the fight in your soul. You clearly are still engaged with life. That’s why you are taking on three territories because there are so many things you want to make right to this troubled world. I can’t find the article now, but you remind me of this grandmotherly lady who still travels/travelled around the world despite her old age. She wants/wanted to die travelling. I have always admired her spirit of adventure. Sounds like you two are kindred spirit.
Having said that, since your brain is always preparing for future events, why not allow yourself the grace to fill your tank every now and then? I’m reading this book “How to do everything and be happy” now - and the author has a habit of incorporating Boxing Day once every month into his life. In the UK, they celebrate Boxing Day, it seems. So, for once a month, he wakes up and listens to what his heart tells him and becomes entirely spontaneous for that day.
Sounds like something you may want to try xP
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Good advice. I'll have to check out the book. I'm glad you're around to contribute good content to my territories. Eases the burden!
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@siggy47 has racked up a lot of points for March Madness
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One thing that is common. My father is similar in many ways to yours. However I am almost two decades younger than you and living entirely the opposite side of the globe. My father is almost 60 now, still working, focused, amiable, loved by everyone. He is wonderfully great. To relate it more, we also had to migrate to much smaller city due to a depression in my country. And I was only 9 years old then. Wow! Even the generational and regional gaps don't cease us to form a similar bonding. I wonder, so many people can relate to your story. My Bitcoin journey is exactly the same as yours. Came in contact in 2016, but only to fully understand and adopt the notion of a Bitcoiner in 2020. It was 2020, because for once in my career I could find much free space due to lockdown in my country. Thanks mate, you did an awesome job in this post. I habe bookmarked it and would be one of the gem pieces of writings that I will always cherish.
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @brave 7 Mar
They is never a finish line in life so I get why your father toll it till the very end.
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @Atreus 6 Mar
Aristotle 📕 says people become misers (chronically unwilling to spend any money) when they forget the difference between money and wealth. That's not to criticize or even explicitly comment on viz., anything you said here. It's just something I myself think about often and thought to pass along.
The key is for your stored energy not to go to waste. Anything beyond that is really just up to you—there's neither reason, pleasure, nor purpose in becoming a consumer just because you're getting up there in years.
Plus, assuming you do have a good succession plan, frivolously expending it all before you get out of here would be pretty silly.
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I freely spend fiat, and I exert some effort to keep the depreciating dollars flowing. I haven't completely ruled out spending sats, but I imagine the bulk will go to my wife and daughter.
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @rheedi0 6 Mar
Maybe it's just because I'm reading The Hobbit right now, but when I read "my precious bitcoin" my mind went straight to Gollum and the Ring. Only mentioning because I can relate to the sentiment; there is an obsession with this thing that can go pretty deep at times. It's always good to pull back once in a while and get some perspective.
Great post. Thanks for sharing.
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Good point. I have trouble treating it simply as a tool, but it's not good treating it as a holy relic either. Difficult balance for me.
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42 sats \ 2 replies \ @Taft 6 Mar
This is an inspiring post for me, siggy! Thanks for sharing a part of your long-life experience.
My wife and I talk about retirement. We talk about how to spend our golden years.
Spend all your fiat, buy more BTC, and spend your golden years in El Salvador using your Bitcoins. (Not financial advice). 😁
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El Salvador will be a vacation destination, at least. Then, who knows?
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taft 6 Mar
Yep. You never know!
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Se7enZ 6 Mar
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this and getting to know you a little bit better.
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Really great post. I would personally give up the "sexism" storyline - families were more functional when there was a clear division of labor. Now both parents work 40+ hours and pay someone else to raise the kids.
That being said, I am a big believer that you can hold your bitcoin forever and live well. I think part of the answer for you could be finding what really drives you: are you driven by earning money or are you driven by building something? or something else? - you can find many things to build in your life. If earning money is what brings you contentment, that is fine too - but don't sell the bitcoin. haha.
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Your reflection on the Pink Floyd lyric is profound, echoing the uncertainty and autonomy inherent in navigating life's path. As you contemplate the future, remember the significance of Bitcoin as a tool for securing your financial independence in the long term. While the journey may be uncertain, your commitment to Bitcoin reflects a belief in its enduring value and potential to shape your golden years with financial security and freedom.
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @Fabs 6 Mar
Wow, that's a solid post, Siggster, solid post.
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Thanks
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Live within your means, save in bitcoin but don't forget to live life too
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Man, I feel like I'm just a little behind you on this path in terms of both acquiring bitcoin and overall time (I've got about twenty or so, assuming the stats are right). And I've also had to start some tough conversations with my wife about spending on stuff that costs a lot of fiat and isn't even necessarily going to provide much happiness.
But while I don't want to ever sell my BTC, I'd love to get to a point where I have enough to feel comfortable and the opportunity to easily use it for some of those things (I've heard about this thing called a vacation, and I'd love to try it sometime).
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I’m at the point where no one is telling me where the finish line is.
Man, better you keep running until you can and have fun doing it, as your dad did! Finish line arrives as surprise, and the best thing to do is not knowing when it will arrive. That's my approach
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I agree 💯
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You have to have a low time preference if you are going to be a holder.People with higher time-preferences would have gotten out of their holding pattern when bitcoin hit a level that activated them, be it $1, $10, $100 or even $1,000. They would have sold out. Who knows to where the dollar will sink? After all, one bitcoin will be one bitcoin forever (or until the concept is abandoned).
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Wow, your story is truly captivating, and I appreciate you sharing such a personal journey. It's fascinating how your father's work ethic and values have shaped your own approach to life and finances. The connection you draw between your low time preference lifestyle and Bitcoin is thought-provoking. Your commitment to holding onto your Bitcoin, even in the face of potential retirement expenses, reflects a deep conviction and connection to this digital asset. The Pink Floyd lyrics add a poignant touch, emphasizing the theme of navigating life without a clear roadmap. Thank you for sharing your reflections; it's a perspective that many can find relatable and inspiring.
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As far as I'm concerned retirement is about living life however you want. For many people that means continuing to work. I respect that. I'll probably do the same, because I do what I love and I love what I do.
As for your Bitcoin stash. Do you have children or someone that needs it more than yourself? I would focus on that. Maybe write about what Bitcoin means to you and pass that knowledge on with your Bitcoin.
I love the idea of passing down generational wealth. My parents didn't have much. I'm fortunate to have spent my life figuring out how to jump up the wealth pyramid a little. I don't do it for myself, I do it for my children.
Insane Zapped
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stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.
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I'm not miserable. I'm happy. I'm on Stacker News because I get bored talking to the people I meet in real life. People on here are smart and interesting, for the most part.
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