On the Subject of Mastery and Achieving Mastery \ stacker news ~mostly

pull down to refresh

On the Subject of Mastery and Achieving Mastery

8873 sats \ 40 comments \ @gnilma 10 Mar mostly_harmless

Let me start by briefly telling my story. I am a finishing carpenter working on new home construction in western Canada for over 16 years. I have been thinking a lot lately about achieving mastery and the meaning of mastery itself. The reason behind all this thought about mastery is that for the past few years, I have been receiving praise on the quality of my work quite a lot. It's coming to a point that the praise is no longer only coming just from customers, but also from other trades working on the same house, cabinet guys, hardwood floor guys, tile guys, painters, etc. Especially if the person do not know me, they would start work on the house, look at my work, and come over to tell me that I'm doing great work or something along those lines. It definitely feels good to receive the praise, but lately I've been thinking to myself if that makes me a master carpenter? When I stand back and reflect on the question, I truly don't think or feel that I have achieved mastery status. I am very experienced, yes, and I do take time to try to do good quality work; but I know there are many skills I can still improve on, I still make mistakes, and there are certainly things related to carpentry I am not good at doing or outright don't know how to do. Maybe also because I learned from a very skilled master who set the bar really high, I feel that I'm still far from achieving what my master could do, and thus, am still far from becoming a true master.

I had discussions with a two of my friends on the topic of mastery. One tells me that mastery means when most people thinks what you do is of high quality or standard, that it's achieved through consensus of the people who utilize or consume your work. Which, by that definition, I'm a master according to him. The second friend tells me that mastery includes someone that does something frequently in a focused way, has an expert point of view, and can explain his / her view in a simple way that a normal person can understand. The master also contributes to the progression of the field, and his / her work has significantly above average quality. I've simply been doing my work and don't think I have contributed to the progression of my field, so perhaps I'm correct to not consider myself a master. Either way, I am still learning more and still trying to perfect my craft each day, while sincerely progressing towards true mastery, in trying to become a master carpenter.

Now that I've told my story, what about yours?

What does mastery mean to you?

What does it mean to achieve mastery in your craft and how do you achieve it?

Do you consider yourself a master of your craft? Why or why not?

And do you plan on achieving mastery if you haven't already? Why or why not?

Thank you for your time.

view all related items

600 sats \ 3 replies \ @plebpoet 12 Mar

I like this discussion, and I want to respond to your questions. I think mastery is an apt measure of achievement that is currently and unfortunately not valued as highly as wealth. I am deeply drawn to mastery in crafting and arts, and because of this I easily become a perfectionist. I get down on myself for being so far from mastery. And I have been thinking of this a lot lately, because I realize I've never done any one thing long enough, with enough focus, to even be on the way to mastery. So why don't I just buckle down and focus on one thing? One skill? One project? Because what happens then is a crisis of how to identify myself. What do I love enough to become it, every day, no matter what the outcome is? And when does it get easier to make that choice? Part of me is able to rationalize this argument by appreciating the freedom I have to try all kinds of things. Trying things satisfies me. But mastery is what I ultimately admire. Another note about the way mastery is valued, wealth or money-making is not on my priority list. It is not calculated in my values system. This makes it more confusing to discover where my focus should go, or what craft of mine may be useful. Because I won't know it by the amount of money it brings me. I do have plans to write books. Writing is the one craft that is most consistent in my story. It has the deepest pull on me. And everyday a huge portion of my brain power is producing, packaging and shipping book ideas. I studied literature in college, but I did not get an education on how to write. Ever since I began taking writing more seriously, I have felt like I'm at the beginning of my journey. That was three years ago. I guess that's not such a long time.

790 sats \ 2 replies \ @gnilma OP 12 Mar

Thank you for your detailed response.

I'm not much of a writer myself, so I do not know how one walks the path towards writing mastery. I can only speak from my own experience, as a carpenter of 16 years. I always felt that I got lucky, because my apprenticeship was under a true master who started carpentry at 17 years old and was on his 36th year as a carpenter when he took me on. He is not only skilled and experienced, but has extreme attention to detail while also being able to walk back and see the big picture. I also think that he is a great teacher who is patient and helpful. I remember, in the beginning, I was not very good at my work and made a lot of mistakes. My master never lost his cool and never showed any sign of anger when I made a mistake. He would point out the flaws and deficiencies in my work, explain to me his requirements and what needs to be fixed, then kindly asked me to take it apart and do it again until it meets his requirement.

I think I was able to continue focusing and working on this trade because I saw what I could become in my master. He doesn't make very much money, but it's enough for him to provide for his family, allow his wife to stay home a not work while raising 2 children. He was very well respected at the construction site, and even strangers (mostly other tradesmen) would show him respect once they see his work. And of course there's the work he do, they are simply amazing pieces of art that I wish I could do myself the moment I saw them. I think having a mentor and someone to show what I could become and what I could achieve, if I put in the time and work, helped me stay the course and stay focused.

It sounded like you are not too sure what craft to pursue, but that you are leaning towards writing. I think that if you enjoy doing it, it's often a good idea to give it a try. The road to mastery is long, requires hard work and dedication. If you strive to achieve mastery in a field, it's probably a good idea to try to master something that you enjoy doing, because it takes years and years of working on the same thing to perfect your craft. I started to have less work needed taking apart and re-doing after the first year. I learned and was familiar with most of the basic skills required for my work after the second year. I started handling contracts on my own at around the fourth year. I became my master's partner in his business after five years. We continued to work together until he retired in early 2022 and passed his business to me.

Another note about the way mastery is valued, wealth or money-making is not on my priority list. It is not calculated in my values system. This makes it more confusing to discover where my focus should go, or what craft of mine may be useful. Because I won't know it by the amount of money it brings me.

You might not be interested in money making, but money making might be interested in you. If what you do brings value to others, and you focus on doing it to a point that you do it better than most others, the money will come knocking on your door whether you want it or not. Maybe that can be an indicator of your level of mastery.

210 sats \ 1 reply \ @plebpoet 12 Mar

A couple years ago, I became really enamored with the idea of a mentor. It crushes me to not have one. I even tried to invent my own imaginary mentor. How did you come to find this invaluable apprenticeship? Do you come across them often? Sometimes I am discouraged enough to believe that good mentors no longer exist.

270 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 13 Mar

He is a long time family friend. I had always been interested in building things and making things with my hands, and decided to take the jump to work in construction as a full time carpenter in my early twenties. I asked him for a job and he gave me a lifelong skill and a career.

I don't believe good mentors no longer exist, but there is probably some luck involved in finding one.

131 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 10 Mar

Very good write-up. Thanks for posting

107 sats \ 2 replies \ @gnilma OP 10 Mar

Thank you. Any comments or thoughts in regards to mastery or how one achieves mastery?

41 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 10 Mar

Not personally. I honestly never got that sense in any of my jobs. Your post did have me think about books like Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance #383302 and Zen In The Art Of Archery, both buddhist takes on mastery.

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar

I like the part when he talks about "quality", or when Phaedrus talks about "quality". That quality is something everyone knows, but no one can really define. Although I think that statement only applies to certain fields and perhaps not others. For example, in my field of work, quality means tight and even joints, level and plum installation, straight lines, and even margins. Proportions matter too, overhangs are usually half inch or one inch depending on size of molding; reveals are usually quarter inch. I can go on and on, but you probably get the point.

211 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar freebie

@OT @grayruby @elvismercury I want to reply the 3 of your messages with the same message.

There is certainly value in someone who can do a little bit of everything, but not focused on one thing. Take construction for example, in different construction projects, some general contractors / builders would have a "handyman" who is a jack-of-all-trades on payroll or on contract, while others do not hire such a person. The projects with the Jacks would always progress smoother, faster, and with less problems, because the Jack is there to solve and fix smaller problems promptly, without having to wait for the particular professional trade of the related problem to come back to fix them. Sometimes, the Jack would even do a better job than the so called "professional" because some Jacks are detailed oriented who care about their quality of work.

Maybe being a good Jack, being good at doing it all is a form of mastery in itself. That there is a certain level of mastery required for being a good Jack. Maybe I've been thinking about this wrong, thinking that mastery is field specific. Maybe mastery is a mindset and methodology of completing tasks rather than being task specific. Or maybe I'm just spewing nonsense...

286 sats \ 3 replies \ @elvismercury 11 Mar

There is a thing in the old version of Dungeons and Dragons (not sure it's still there, or that it still works like I'm going to describe) called the "multi-classed character" that is a combination of the atomic classes: instead of a fighter, or a mage, or a thief, you can be a fighter-thief, or even a fighter-mage-thief.

These characters are interesting but they gain levels slowly bc the experience has to be divided between all those classes. I don't think, in actual play, it is advantageous to be one of these character types, most of the time. They are too vulnerable for too long. They lag far behind their peers.

That is my story, basically.

The silver lining to it, as best I've been able to determine, is that you can willfully inhabit the spaces between things. So you won't be a master to the world at large -- people won't recognize what you even are, and rarely value you for it; but you could be a master of your particular flavor of between-ness. That can be satisfying, and sometimes exceedingly useful.

@OT and @grayruby made similar comments about jack-of-all-trades, I'm curious if they'd endorse this.

110 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 11 Mar

Sounds about right.

Some things can cross over too and give you an advantage. Francis Ngannou was shoveling in a sand mind for many years which likely gave him that knockout power when he went into boxing and MMA.

47 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheWildHustle 11 Mar

You have TheWildHustle’s endorsement.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 11 Mar

Yes, I like this. As a small business owner I had to be proficient in everything relating to my business but because I was doing everything I didn't really become a master at anything. As you pointed out with your game analogy, you can succeed that way but it takes a long time to go from zero to proficient in a lot of skills. This is why small businesses often fail after the owner/operator retires or sells.

132 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 11 Mar

For the last 20 years I have prided myself on being competent at everything and a master of nothing. The age old Jack of all trades master of none saying. I think that served me well. I was able to build a successful small business, competent enough to invest my money wisely and put myself in a position to live a comfortable life where I control my time.

I don’t think I would advise my kids to do it that way though. I would advise them to master something and then try to stack other skills on top of their mastery.

But then I wonder about the impact of AI and how AI will enable any competent person to appear to be a master so maybe mastering your AI agents will be the mastery most humans pursue in the future.

301 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei 13 Mar

Hi Headache Fixer!

What a great topic to chew on my school holiday. For context, I have been working at my current school for about 7 years.

I think there are different peaks of mastery. Just like how mountaineers set off to climb various mountainous peaks. So just because I recognise that there are plenty of things I got to brush up on doesn’t mean that I can’t consider myself a master. xP

Mastery, to me, is the feeling that I have attained high proficiency in regard to my domain knowledge (the science and art of teaching English) and exude a sense of having come into my own. In my first year at my current school, a colleague remarked how I always seemed to “wobble like a penguin” - that’s how unsure of myself I was. These days, I feel like I know what I’m doing with my students. I can explain and defend my pedagogical decisions like a pro.

So I would consider myself an Emerging Master. I read the criteria of being a Master put forth by other Stackers and find that I fulfill some of the attributes. People do come to me for advice; parents are willing to pay me to tutor their children; I get invited to get presentations. However, as I mentioned earlier, since it is only in recent years that I feel confident about my skills, I have yet to polish them. After all, teaching is chemistry between the teacher and his students - and what may work for one class will backfire in another. I haven’t gained so many data points that I can conclusively say that my methods work effectively in ALL classes. That’s the Mount Everest of teaching for me.

I think it helps that in my country, those considered to be experts in teaching are still ranked: Master Teacher > Lead Teacher > Senior Teacher. I’m working towards being a Senior Teacher, so I have no qualms calling myself a Master haha.

Lastly, I do believe that Masters are like the third bricklayer in this parable. have a grand purpose and keep to it, day in day out.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 13 Mar

Thank you for sharing your story and your views on the subject matter. Good luck in your quest to become a master teacher, both the title given by your education system, and more importantly, the confirmation given by your students and students' parents.

52 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 10 Mar

I'm not entirely sure what my craft is, but I'm definitely not a master of anything. I don't even like being thought of as an expert, although my credentials make that difficult to escape.

I do feel like part of mastery is having that deep understanding of your craft. It's not just knowing how to do everything, but also why. There's always more for everyone to learn, so I don't think that should count against you.

Do people come seeking your insights or trying to learn your technique? I think that might be the tipping point to mastery.

55 sats \ 4 replies \ @gnilma OP 10 Mar

Do people come seeking your insights or trying to learn your technique?

I think at around my 8th or 9th year doing this, I begin to be able to see and catch potential problems that could arise in later stages of construction, mostly positioning issues that may arise later. So many customers who know me well would usually do a walk through with me after framing and rough-in is complete, but before drywall, so I can tell them about potential problems.

I'm also the fixer, where when there is something out of place or something that doesn't look nice needed to be covered, I'm usually the guy making the boxes to cover the deficiencies.

I also get asked to design carpentry related work for people a lot. Customers would have an idea of what they want, they would tell me what they want, and I would come up with a design and put the design into reality once it gets approved by the customer.

I do get ask by other carpenters when they have questions, a lot of time regarding technique or how to solve a problem, and I usually am able to help them with their questions. But I think that's just sharing experience, from someone with more experience to someone with less of it.

131 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 10 Mar

It sounds like you're close to mastery, if not there already.

56 sats \ 1 reply \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 11 Mar

I agree. My skill isn’t carpentry but if I took this comment and applied it to my craft, it would be a master

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar

It can be any craft or anything that you do. Just want to discuss the idea of mastery in general, be it programming, knife sharpening, architectural design, cooking, or whatever it is that you do.

35 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar

I hope so.

I forgot to mention a comment from another friend of mine when I talked to him regarding this. He said that it doesn't matter if I'm a master or not a master. I'm still going to do things the same way and have the same attitude towards my work one way or the other. So why waste time thinking about this crap? If I do good work, customers will appreciate it and keep coming back; if I do bad work, customers will leave and not use me again. Just focus on doing a good work and the rest will sort itself out.

I think I should take his advice.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Kontext 27 Mar

“You must value learning above everything else.” Robert Greene, “Mastery” That is a great book on the subject and I think the quote summarizes for me the core aspect of a master - the desire, capability and need to keep on learning. A good teacher never ceases to be a student. Of course, besides the child-like sense of awe and wonder, in order to be considered a master, one should also display the characteristics of a wise adult, harnessing and utilizing their time and energy in order to gain the knowledge and experience required to excel in their domain. Tl;dr: PASSION AND QUALITY OF WORK are, in my humble opinion, the main signs of a master or someone on the way of becoming one. Sounds like you are on that path, kudos. As for me, I've yet to achieve mastery in any craft. My interests have been too varied, focus too all over the place. However, I reckon I've built a solid baseline of knowledge and learned about the interconnectedness of many disciplines, so I'm excited to see where all this takes me.

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 11 Mar

Unfortunately I'm more of a Jack.

Wish I could just focus on that one thing, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar

What is preventing you from specializing?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 11 Mar

Too many interests, not enough conviction in one of them, not starting early enough in life with everything.

Its OK. I understand Satoshi was a Jack too. He took 3 things (PoW, difficulty adjustment & fixed supply) and put them together in a way no one had done before. Bruce Lee was another.

So although I do envy mastery. I'm just accepting that I'm more of a Jack.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 11 Mar

It’s hard to define. I think many aspects that you covered are important:

Do peers seek your advice, either both in planning or repairing?
Do you foresee issues before they happen?
Do you understand why you do things, not just that you have to do them?

I also agree that having more to learn doesn’t disqualify you from being a master. There’s always more to learn

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar

Maybe my master had set the bar very high and I'm using his skills and experience as a measure of mastery. But when it comes to my work, I think I'm doing all 3 things you listed.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @jgbtc 11 Mar

I liked the movie Whiplash for its exploration of this subject.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar

Although it's all dramatized, that movie really hit me. The amount of practice, dedication, and simply going through hell someone is willing to endure simply amazes me. At the same time, someone who is willing to push another human being to the point of breakdown seems crazy to me. I will never forget the scene where he is practicing and his fingers are all bleeding but he continues to push through, that's dedication, that probably only happens in movies.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @02bcd3eeb0 11 Mar

Mastery, I think, is peers in the same field recognising your skills and wanting to learn from you.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 11 Mar

Nice write up! I consider myself a life long learner. I’ve competitively run since I was 8 years old. Late into my 20’s I made a run at the marathon Olympic Trials. To get to this elite level took god given talent and years of miles. Likely near the 10,000 hour rule that Malcolm Gladwell mentions on Outliers. I had to prepare my mind and body for such a grueling event.

I’m also a scrum master in IT by career and take similar coaching approaches to that.

Great write up!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 11 Mar

To be pricise, mastery means 'getting close to perfection in what you do'. Perfection to a point where even the minutest of the details are taken care of.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @DiedOnTitan 11 Mar

Mastery to me means cccuracy combined with speed. It is not enough to be very good at something if you work very slowly and inefficiently. Mastery comes when you perform with precision and quickness. This takes focus, skill, and a lot of practice to hone your craft. To doing the thing expertly and fast.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma OP 11 Mar

I think it depends on the particular work, and the importance of speed varies from work to work. Some work just need to be completed and done, while others need to be completed with quality. Often times, more time spent on the work could improve quality, and might be worthwhile sacrificing speed for the quality. I think the need for speed is a nuanced discussion and really varies from case to case.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss 11 Mar freebie

I do math in a totally non math environment, get lots of positive feedback and reactions. So following your two friends one could say I reached mastery. Of course, objectively speaking I didn’t, only if I would receive similar reactions from my math fellows. This would be the point of mastery I would love to get to.