I'm going to tell you what happened when I helped a person make their first Bitcoin purchase.
I was at a relative's house, and this relative knew that I lived off of Bitcoin, which has always surprised her, but lately she has seen videos on YouTube from Marc Vidal (a well-known Spanish influencer) recommending Bitcoin. So, me trying to convince her of this for a while and the opinion of this influencer she followed, she finally decided to make her first purchase.
The problem is that, for the first purchase, setting up a wallet and writing down the words, and everything else, may seem simple and trivial to us, but to a newbie, it's not. They don't understand these concepts. But there was no problem; I spent 2 hours explaining everything to her.
At that point, and seeing how inexperienced she was, I didn't feel comfortable recommending her a P2P platform to buy Bitcoin. With everything else she had already gone through, teaching her how to use HodlHodl or Robosats would be an impossible mission. So, I decided to teach her how to buy through Relai, a centralized exchange located in Switzerland that accepts SEPA transfers but doesn't require KYC.
Then we went to the bank's website of my relative, La Caixa, the second or third largest bank in Spain after Santander and BBVA. We logged in, and tried to make a transfer to Relai for only 100€.
To our surprise, La Caixa unilaterally refused to do the transfer and gave an error message, telling them to contact them. Seeing this, I sold my Bitcoin to her for those 100€ so that she could have the money in her wallet for good.
However, this wasn't over yet; and now came the "good" part: after a few minutes, an operator from La Caixa called my relative to talk about the transfer she wanted to make to Relai. The approximate conversation is:
-- Good afternoon, we have received a request for a transfer to a Bitcoin exchange in Switzerland; is this correct? -- Yes, it's correct. I just did it. -- Well, you need to know that there are many Bitcoin scams and we have an internal policy of not allowing these types of transfers. However, if you want to buy Bitcoin, you should know that we can offer you a secure and guaranteed investment product based on Bitcoin. All you have to do is enter our app and search for the word "Bitcoin," and a list of funds that you can select will appear.
To say the least, we were left speechless. Not only are these banks preventing transfers to exchanges, but they also try to sell you their Bitcoin ETF derivative for which not only do they charge relatively high commissions (several € per operation), but it's also not the real Bitcoin, losing the entirety of your sovereignty.
This reminded us how indeed fiat money doesn't belong to you, and it belongs even less to you when it's in a bank account, where the bank decides what you can and cannot buy and with whom you can make transactions. And when you try to leave that system, they try to prevent it by all means.
This society won't go anywhere until it fixes its money. And in order for it to fix its money, it demands a clear and resounding response from us.

Spanish

Os voy a contar lo que me ha pasado cuando he ayudado a una persona a hacer su primera compra en Bitcoin.
Yo estaba en casa de un familiar visitándolo. Este familiar sabía que yo vivía de Bitcoin, lo cual siempre le ha sorprendido, pero últimamente había visto videos en Youtube de Marc Vidal (un influencer famoso español) que recomendaba Bitcoin. Así que, entre que yo he intentado convencerle de siempre, y la opinión de este influencer que sigue, se animó a hacer la primera compra.
El problema es que, la primera compra, y dar de alta una wallet y apuntar las palabras y todo eso, a nosotros nos parece sencillo y trivial, pero a un novato no. Son conceptos nuevos que no entienden. Pero no hay problema, gasté 2 horas en explicarle todo.
En ese punto, y viendo lo novato que era, yo no me atrevía a recomendarle una plataforma de p2p para comprar Bitcoin, porque sin duda ya con lo anterior estaba muy saturado, encima enseñarle a usar HodlHodl o Robosats sería misión imposible. Así que opté por enseñarle a comprar con Relai, un exchange centralizado localizado en Suiza que acepta transferencias SEPA, pero que no requiere KYC.
Entonces vamos a la página del banco de mi familiar, La Caixa, el segundo o tercer banco más importante de España tras el Santander y el BBVA. Ahí se loguea, e intenta hacer una transferencia a Relai, por valor de tan solo 100€.
Cual es nuestra sorpresa que La Caixa rechaza unilateralmente hacer una transferencia a Relai, dando un mensaje de error y diciendo que se pongan en contacto con ellos. Visto esto, lo que hago es venderle yo Bitcoin por esos 100€, para que pueda tener ya ese dinero en su wallet.
Pero no para ahí la cosa, y ahora biene lo "bueno": tras pasar unos minutos, un operador de La Caixa le llama para hablarle de la transferencia que mi familiar quería hacer a Relai. La conversación aproximada es:
-- Buenas tardes, hemos recibido una solicitud de transferencia a un exchange de Bitcoin en Suiza, ¿es esto correcto? -- Si, correcto, lo acabo de hacer. -- Bueno, tiene usted que saber que hay muchas estafas con Bitcoin y tenemos la política interna de impedir este tipo de transferencias. Sin embargo, si usted quiere comprar Bitcoin, debe saber que nosotros le podemos ofrecer un producto de inversión basado en Bitcoin que es seguro y garantizado. Tan solo tiene que entrar en nuestra aplicación y buscar la palabra Bitcoin y le saldrá una lista de fondos que usted puede seleccionar.
Que decir que, tras escuchar esto, nos quedamos helados. No solo estos bancos están impidiendo las transferencias a exchanges, sino que además intentan venderte su derivado ETF por el que no solo cobran comisiones bastante altas (varios € por operación), sino que además no es el Bitcoin real, perdiendo la totalidad de tu soberanía.
Esto nos recuerda como realmente el dinero fiat no te pertenece, y te pertenece aún menos cuando lo metes en una cuenta bancaria, en donde el banco decide que puedes y no puedes comprar y con quien puedes hacer transacciones. Y cuando intentas salir de tu sistema, lo intentan impedir por todos los medios.
Esta sociedad no llegará a ninguna parte hasta que no arregle su dinero. Y para que arregle su dinero, exige de una respuesta contundente de nosotros.
It’s magnanimous of you to sell your own BTC so as to successfully orange-pill her. Good job 👍
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Don't tell me, I was crying sending my BTC to her....
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La Caixa is the shittiest shit.
"We don't allow transfers to buy bitcoin outside our shitty bank but you can buy an IoU from us ..." The joke tells itself
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Yup this is why we need to help others!
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Apparently is not the only bank doing this. Even the so called "neobanks" like Wise and Revolut are basically doing the same.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @clr 31 Mar
AFAIK, Wise allows to receive fiat transfers from exchanges, but disallows fiat transfers to exchanges (and can lock your account for even trying).
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Muy buen artículo
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Encantado. ¿Te ha pasado algo parecido?
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Fuck the banks... it's the only way forward. I understand the situation, we need to improve how a newbie onboard to bitcoin.
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Exactly, the problem is how to make a newbie independent. And I'm having a lot of difficulties in this matter. I have a long list of people every month that want to buy me Bitcoin, but I have a limit and have to do selection. Can you believe it?
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Spain as far I am aware is the most socialist country in the EU so :S ... seems normal that people want to escape via BTC.
Any help from your local meetup? that's the best place to "sell" btc using cash.
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Absolutely, Spain is by far the most communist country in EU. I'm not talking about just socialism, but communism. They have literal communists in the gov, from the communist party. Add to that we have the worst tax office in the world that loses more than 50% of the cases that go to trial.
Fortunately, I don't have the need to attend meetings, since I have a long list of people who buy from me every month.
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we need to improve how a newbie onboard to bitcoin.
yes, this is crucial.
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but they also try to sell you their Bitcoin ETF derivative for which not only do they charge relatively high commissions (several € per operation), but it's also not the real Bitcoin, losing the entirety of your sovereignty.
wow... I am speechless. This is worse than I thought. The banking scam is going even deeper.
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Have you used a bank account recently? This is the state of things right now.
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Sorry (not sorry), I am bankless. Only Bitcoin. Your story is quite frighten because it shows the situation that many bitcoiners do not (want) to see it: the banksters and govs now want to create a false illusion among normies, that buying these crap ETFs (paper IOU bitcoin), are the real Bitcoin, the so called "approved" bitcoin.
This is the biggest danger ever existed for Bitcoin.
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This is another trick in the long list they have, and if they do it is because they are afraid. We must insist a lot more about the concept "not your keys, not your bitcoins".
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @clr 31 Mar
This is the state of things right now.
Do you have more juicy stories to share? I closed my European bank accounts a few years ago, so I don't know too much about what's going on in fiatland.
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Here are some more testimonials:
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @clr 2 Apr
Thanks for following up on this.
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Just type "wise account closed" in youtube and you'll see dozens of videos of people that got their account closed because they were sending money to exchanges. I know there are many other banks that do it, you can do a research for any bank you are interested in.
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This reminded us how indeed fiat money doesn't belong to you, and it belongs even less to you when it's in a bank account, where the bank decides what you can and cannot buy and with whom you can make transactions. And when you try to leave that system, they try to prevent it by all means.
They are the biggest liars and hypocrites of all ages. Believe me, I literally spit over them whenever see one of them.
Hora de cambiar de banco. Yo con ING nunca he tenido problemas.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 1 Apr
Its going to take many years to educate
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 1 Apr
ED-U-CA-TION!
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Imagine the cost of calling everyone who wants such small amounts. Only possible if the caller accepts unlimited fiat. Might be fun to try and educate the representative.
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They reject the tx automatically, but probably they only call you the first time.
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Man. Like, if it had been 100000€, I could see the bank wanting a confirmation (whether for an exchange or for something non-BTC related). But people make 100€ purchases all the time. This was purely an attempt to try to redirect business to their own offerings. I wonder how many folks they've snookered this way.
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Most probably, a large percentage. These are clearly mafia techniques.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @oomahq 2 Apr
I wouldn't expect any less from La Caixa.
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Indeed. When I walk on the street, if there is a La Caixa office nearby, I cross the street, just in case...
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Why did you tried with credit card?
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If you're in Spain and your financial service provider is attempting to be your legal guardian, Santander's Openbank doesn't overreach, accounts are "maintenance fee" free and I never had a problem with them with Bitcoin/Crypto related transactions.
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LOL so you are now promoting banks instead of Bitcoin? What kind of shitcoinery is this?
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The same for me. I have been using Openbank for a few years now, with many transactions on exchanges when I started back in 2021.
I asked my boss to pay my payroll with bitcoin directly, but no luck so far, so the option of moving my payroll from my Openbank account to any other platform and purging those shitty euros to Bitcoin is the option I I have chosen.
In the case of not having a payroll, there is no excuse, I would directly be with Bitcoin, but for a noob, it is normal to want to make bank transfers in what they know. And if you're not very techie, it's difficult to convince clients to pay you in Bitcoin.
For non-techies, who do not have a payroll, and wish to continue receiving bank transfers in fiat, there are neobanks with no commission in their services, with KYC, of course, but that will allow you to receive those transfers without problems, and make them to other platforms such as Relai.
In any case, having an IBAN requires KYC, and if you want to avoid that, you have to explain in a simple way, to all those who have to make those transfers, how to do it with Bitcoin.
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Si necesitas una cuenta bancaria viviendo en España porque no tienes tiendas cerca que acepten Bitcoin o porque donde quieres comprar no tienen cupones de Bitrefill, lo mejor es tenerla LO MÁS LEJOS POSIBLE DE HACIENDA, y eso no se consigue de ninguna de las maneras con Openbank ni ningún otro banco con IBAN español. Es mejor que cojas una cuenta con IBAN extranjero de algún país que no se lleve muy bien con España, como por ejemplo Bélgica. La cuenta de Wise funciona bien para exchanges p2p, aunque no funciona para exchanges centralizados. Te dan la tarjeta que puedes usar a los 5 minutos con Google Pay. Aunque Wise es odioso como todos los bancos, puedes usarlo lo menos posible solo para los recibos domiciliados y nada más.
Pero casi mejor es la solución de https://xkode.io/producto/prepaid-virtual-visa-international-usd/ que es una Visa SIN KYC que puedes usar en todo el mundo incluida en las tiendas españolas. También es odioso, pero si no puedes pagar con Bitcoin es a día de hoy la única solución efectiva sin KYC.
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If the employer do not want to pay you in BTC, use Bitwage https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/be-paid-in-bitcoin-using-bitwage
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I know about this one. I read your article a long time ago and I even have it in favorites.
Which, for now, is still good for me to have my bank and be able to move this fiat wherever I want, converting it to bitcoin when I feel like it. Because I still haven't been able to convince many to pay them in bitcoin, and they only accept bank transfers or Bizum.
What I do strictly follow is only having in the bank what I am willing to lose. The rest, bitcoin.
If you don't want to listen or learn, I'm not going to waste my time
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I know about Openbank, but Santander is not "free" unless you have your payroll there, and sometimes they ask you about when you send money, it happened to somebody close to me.
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If a bank won't let you do something, get out of there.
Before having Openbank I was at ING, and for a week, I couldn't access my funds because the application, only for some, was being updated (no mobile app, no website, no anything)...
As soon as I was able to log in, I checked that everything was correct, and I changed banks.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @quark 31 Mar
This should be penalized. There is nothing wrong of them to offer the derivative. But very wrong to have blocked the transaction and then offer it. They should have let the 100€ go and then they can call and tell her about their product. I hope she starts withdrawing her fiat from that bank.
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I hope she starts withdrawing her fiat from that bank.
Op out... this is the way, a good example of reality check, it's not your money... it's their.
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Why did you tried with credit card?