The Problem with Juneteenth \ stacker news ~econ

The Problem with Juneteenth mises.org/mises-wire/problem-juneteenth

1845 sats \ 98 comments \ @Undisciplined 19 Jun econ

By Connor O’Keeffe

The abolition of chattel slavery was a great advancement for human liberty. But many of those celebrating Juneteenth today still accept the core assumptions that underlie slavery.

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47 sats \ 1 reply \ @Nuttall 20 Jun

This sounds like slavery to me...

These days, the coercion underlying progressive programs is shifted from the service provider to the working professionals taxed to pay for them. The average American works the equivalent of thirty-eight days a year exclusively to fund government programs. For the top 1 percent of income earners, the average is sixty-five days. The only problem progressives have with this violent expropriation of wealth through taxation is that there’s not enough of it.

My earnings confiscated before I can use them by State and Federal government people before I can decide where they should go is working without pay. But because I've signed a tax document by filing and because I've signed a pre-tax form for employment the justification is that I've agreed to this indeturement.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

Yes, but since the state makes credible threats of violence against people, those signatures are under duress.

126 sats \ 11 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

The problem with Juneteenth is that once again something the Black community enjoyed amongst ourselves is commercialized and politicized. And because we are only 14% of the population we really have no say, but we get the bullshit.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

Maybe it will settle down, once it doesn't feel like a new holiday anymore.

0 sats \ 9 replies \ @Nuttall 21 Jun

I grew up in a very mixed community, I'm 54 years old and I never knew black people to be weak, full of self interest or needing special treatment. Half my teachers were black, 1/4 of my military bosses were black, I played Dungeons and Dragons with some black dudes, my wrestling coaches were black. I don't get it. They would be embarrassed over some weak ass shit holiday.

10 sats \ 8 replies \ @TNStacker 21 Jun

Nope. No special treatment needed or desired. In fact the opposite. Just fairness and justice.

Ask them if they want you here speaking for them now (the fucking arrogance!) - shitting on the holiday?

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @Nuttall 21 Jun

The real problem is that there is no them. There is no homogeneous black or for that matter white people or culture. It just doesn't exist.

Since I grew up in a military area. I played with kids from Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Vietnam, Korea and FRESH OFF THE BOAT African, Arab, Pakistan, Indian, ....

One of my art teachers in middle school, a "black" woman said that anyone who paints or draws a black person black or a white person white will get an F.

Juneteenth celebrates the last standing end of US slavery and it's directed towards black people but what about indentured servants from Ireland, England, Germany, Poland or Slavic (where we get the word, "slave" from) people? How about the many workers who still have their earnings confiscated before they are allowed to receive them?

How about those deep in debt. How about the Democratic/ Communist action to destroy families by getting the man out of the house?

Forcing people to participate in a holiday that marginalizes and segregates Americans is retarded. This also goes for the automatic notifications for for all political agenda holidays.

People don't want to understand how slavery happened and continues to go on. The United States is the largest consumer of child slavery! That's a fact. Child porn and trafficking has the largest consumer group in the United States. Is that not the continuation of slavery?

My great great grandfather was an indentured whaler. He jumped ship off the coast of Virginia and settled here. He worked for free for 10 years. He was also white.

My wife in Uzbekistan picked cotton in the 1960s and 1970s with her class mates for free by hand. This was for the Soviet Republic of Uzbekistan. By hand they picked cotton because it made it softer!

So getting triggered over my disapproval of a holiday that marginalizes people, makes people weak and rent seek is fine but you need to realize that slavery has not ended and that people all over the planet are being culled, killed, farmed and distracted by woke patronizing celebrations of central planned operations.

10 sats \ 6 replies \ @TNStacker 21 Jun

Don't project your triggered attitude on to me. You post speaking for people. Then post saying those people don't exist.

Now here is a lot of words spewing more ignorance and arrogance.

Juneteenth celebrates the last standing end of US slavery and it's directed towards black people

Just wrong. Learn and read before spewing garbage, please.There are readily available resources, but you are obviously not interested. Just want to spew.

but what about indentured servants from Ireland, England, Germany, Poland or Slavic (where we get the word, "slave" from) people?

All are welcome to celebrate Freedom day or not. But again, you'd have to read and learn, which isn't your point is it?

How.can a celebration that already took place among Black be a holiday directed towards blacks?

More importantly, why do you have a problem with taking a celebration that was started by freed Black Texans and making it a freedom celebration for all?

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @Nuttall 21 Jun

That's just my two sats. It's a holiday that has been placed upon me by central planners and if you like it or don't like it I don't care. It's secular. It's imposed and I don't need to bend a knee for it.

The declaration of Independence was written including all men. Even when it was written there were not free men but the cat was out of the bag and thus it was hard to say who it didn't represent.

How many faux freedom holidays do we need?

If it's a Texas thing then I have no problem with that.

Our government has tried many tricks against the population since 2020 and I'm not going to be read into the latest scam.

I'm glad that you support this psychological operation.

One of many.

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @TNStacker 21 Jun

My people have celebrated Juneteenth for over a century. Yup we are part of this psyop you speak of.

1 sat \ 3 replies \ @Nuttall 22 Jun

I understood that from earlier in the thread.

What I don't like is making me observe the holiday and expecting me to like it.

That's pure FIAT.

But you think that is good... Wait until the tides change and what you respect and like becomes bad news.

Clearly you don't see a problem with the Democratic mandates because you think you are special.

I'll state this and I know it's true. The good guys and the bad guys are the same people and they are keeping you entertained for a reason.

But full disclosure I zapped your responses because I thought maybe we'd have some good dialogue. Instead I've just wasted my time. At least I paid you for yours.

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55 sats \ 12 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

I don't like the title. The problem is not with Juneteenth. As always the problem is people. As soon as they made it a national holiday, people in my community said watch all the BS that will follow. Walmart and Target will try to capitalize and others, well, you see it explained in this article.

But don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

68 sats \ 10 replies \ @Nuttall 20 Jun

All Federal holidays are stupid. Paid holidays to federal and state workers is a scam.

Texas having this as a holiday kind of makes sense but....

Holiday means Holy Day.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

I like California's approach, letting individuals define their Holy Days.

But realistically, in America, commerce is the religion. Holy Days are commercialized and many "holidays" were developed by business associations and lobbies to get people to spend.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Nuttall 21 Jun

All central planning is full of tyranny.

31 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

Paid holidays for government workers actually reduce total labor costs, because they aren't earning benefits. Unless you think they're missing what would have been productive work, these are good for the tax payer.

I say we should have hundreds of federal holidays.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Nuttall 21 Jun

I just read this 5 times and now I fully understand. Yes all Federal workers should have nothing but paid holidays. That makes welfare and corporate welfare recipients paid government workers, too.

The pay should be based on how many days they don't come into work. Every year the evaluation is that you can ink your thumbprint or an appendage that you have that doesn't trigger you to depression.

Also the incentive to become a federal employee would be to keep you from peaceful demonstration where you burn things down.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

All government work should be project-based, i.e. temporary, or part-time eh!

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

As a start, sure.

It should be made less attractive than work in the private sector. As it is, in many fields, government jobs pay more for less work and more security.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Nuttall 21 Jun

All paid holidays for federal and state workers is a scam of the highest level. They are means of extracting the labor of skilled workers.

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 21 Jun

How so?

My point is that they reduce the cost of government workers. I'm sure we agree that it's better to pay them zero for those days, so paying them less is better than paying them more.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Nuttall 21 Jun

I re-read your post. My brain actually understood after much thinking.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 21 Jun

It's ok. I didn't get it until having someone explain how government labor costs work.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

That’s fair

63 sats \ 8 replies \ @erict875 20 Jun

Genuine Q.

What percentage of Whites could afford to, or owned slaves?

What percentage of Blacks are descendant of slaves?

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @erict875 20 Jun

I asked the "Oracle":

In the United States, historical data and estimates provide insight into the percentage of Whites who owned slaves and the percentage of Blacks who are descendants of slaves:

Percentage of Whites Who Owned Slaves:

At the height of slavery in the antebellum South, approximately 25% of White families owned slaves. This statistic varies by region, with higher percentages in the Deep South and lower percentages in border states.

Percentage of Blacks Who Are Descendants of Slaves:

The vast majority of African Americans today are descendants of enslaved people. Estimates suggest that around 90% or more of Black Americans have ancestors who were enslaved in the United States. This high percentage is due to the extensive impact of slavery on the African American population before emancipation and the continuity of African American lineage from that era.

These figures help illustrate the historical and ongoing impacts of slavery on American society.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

These data might explain why so any whites do not perceive ongoing impacts. Some fair percentage of the seventy-five percent of whites not descended from slave owners don't see the issues and complaints of the descendants of slaves as valid.

38 sats \ 5 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

Those are good questions for the intellectual exercise of unaffected peoples. However what does this mean to the descendants of American slaves, like me?

Not shit.

68 sats \ 4 replies \ @erict875 20 Jun

I'm not American, and genuinely curious to know how that affects your life in 2024.

50 sats \ 3 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

Where are you from? This is not just America's problem.

This is easily researchable. And with imagination not too difficult to extrapolate.

This is not from 1870 or 1920 or 1965, but 2023-2024 and is emblematic of perpetuating attitudes and behavior:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/10/us/goon-squad-mississippi-state-sentencing/index.html

Riches & misery: the consequences of the Atlantic slave trade

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/history/riches-misery-the-consequences-the-atlantic-slave-trade#:~:text=The%20long%2Dterm%20economic%20exploitation,now%2C%20many%20years%20after%20emancipation

An American Tragedy: The legacy of slavery lingers in our cities’ ghettos

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/an-american-tragedy-the-legacy-of-slavery-lingers-in-our-cities-ghettos/

Researchers illuminate centuries of identity lost because of slavery

https://today.usc.edu/ancestry-slavery-researchers-illuminate-centuries-of-identity-lost/

63 sats \ 2 replies \ @erict875 20 Jun

I'm originally from Africa. I am aware of such stories in the press, but fwiw I have never actually been able to validate them in real life. I'm not saying they're not true, even though I'm very well aware how the press can push a certain narrative while omitting other facts... My personal experience as an immigrant (not in the us) is the complete opposite, this is why I was particularly interested about yours.

63 sats \ 1 reply \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

Africa is a huge continent. Where are you from? And to where did you immigrate?

My personal experience can be a book, but briefly;

proven housing descrimination where we were literally flooded out of an apartment when they found out I was Black. You see my white wife rented the place while I was working away from home.
Too many pull-overs and harassments, warrantless searches and in one case a baton to the head by police to count. I've only escaped jail, because I have been able to afford good lawyers. But if you sit in most. any courtroom in America, you see Blacks going to jail, and for longer, with only public defenders to represent them.
A boss and a direct report, after a year on the job, telling me openly in a staff meeting that they were not learning their jobs, because it was easier to just ask me. Upon confronting this, the boss said that's not what we mean and ended the meeting. Two months later I was laid off due to reorganization. This may have been the most priveleged shit I ever experienced.

I could go on and on and on.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @erict875 20 Jun

Wow! Sad to read. Thanks for sharing. Especially being laid off is def. not fun.

63 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsMate 20 Jun

In corporate, we were forced to sit through our webinar on this stuff today.

It wouldn't be so bad if it were more chill, and based on the facts - but the amount of signaling really rubbed me (and many other colleagues) in the wrong direction.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

I can relate to that.

52 sats \ 3 replies \ @16d86e9daa 20 Jun

most of the rhetoric we see from those promoting Juneteenth sidesteps the actual issue of slavery

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

What does promoting Juneteenth mean? I invite people to enjoy it like my family has for over a century. I guess that is promoting it at my level. Or do you mean those who lobbied to make it a Federal holiday?

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

I interpreted that comment as being about the recent partisan attention on the holiday.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

Ah. Fucking partisans. Good for nothings that will start conflicts and wars for governments that don't give a fuck about them.

63 sats \ 53 replies \ @Satosora 19 Jun

I didnt even know this was a holiday. When did it become a holiday? Last three years?

52 sats \ 46 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

Juneteenth National Independence Day Act was signed into law, June 17, 2021.

Here are the states that recognize it:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/09/more-than-half-of-states-now-recognize-juneteenth-as-an-official-holiday/

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 20 Jun

Yeah, this was during the time I was in Taiwan, so I didnt realize it was a holiday.

42 sats \ 44 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

That’s a pretty random looking assortment of states.

62 sats \ 43 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

Yeah. Arizona held out on MLK forever, so they are doing what they do. I was surprised Tennessee signed on so quickly. California has so many religions and peoples the kind of let people select certain holidays or take days not nationally recognized.

21 sats \ 42 replies \ @Satosora 20 Jun

Why did they hold out so long? Federal holidays all the states have to accept, right? Is juneteenth not a national holiday?

41 sats \ 41 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

Mississippi celebrates Robert E. Lee Day on MLK Day. Does that answer your question?

Some holidays are Federal and Bank holidays. Some are not. States get to decide.

31 sats \ 37 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 20 Jun

I hadn’t heard the Mississippi thing. That’s wild.

42 sats \ 36 replies \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

I was living there when MLK Day became a holiday. The first year all the newspapers had Robert E. Lee and Confederate flags on the front page. Today Mississippi and Alabama keep it going refusing to honor King.

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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @Satosora 20 Jun

oh I see. Some cultures are baked in tradition. I guess the south likes Lee better than King.

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @TNStacker 20 Jun

The white south seems to. Most Blacks live in the South, but you might not know that.

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216 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 19 Jun

It's been a holiday for over a hundred years, but until recently it was almost exclusively celebrated by black Americans.

42 sats \ 4 replies \ @Satosora 19 Jun

My father told me it was a national holiday now?

128 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 19 Jun

That's right. It was added to the list of Federal Holidays two or three years ago.