The whole point of SN is to be garden. To the extent that we have a wall is a function of us prioritizing gardening, bitcoin stuff. We don't want the wall and I'm very happy many awesome developers are working on wall-breaking tech.
I also don't blame these assholes for being agape. I don't expect them to understand what we're trying to do or believe me until it's done.
P.S. If you're a founder of one their portfolio companies, please don't take their advice because it's their advice. Build what you think you should build. The taker is the one that loses when bad advice is given.
I love SN more than I do Nostr. Stackernews gives me more information and education than Nostr. In other, I am more empowered by/on SN than Nostr. To be honest, I feel there are more self-sovereign individuals focusing their attention and time on SN than Nostr. The sense of community on SN is far better for me. And the incentives too. God bless SN!
Bro I just want to say I love using Stacker News and the community here. I use it all the time. Haters gonna hate. You guys have built something awesome.
That's because every ten31 investment gets a pass on being custodial, compromising on bitcoin, etc. by ten31 vcs, lps and friends. That whole crew are unfortunately falling prey to the entire industry they said they wouldn't be: shill the portfolio, push one narrative, say one thing in public and another in private.
Bitcoiners are eyes-wide-open people; stay that way. Keeps things in perspective. SN is great. Primal is not good for nostr and fundamentally a mediocre product. Custodial LN can be OK for small amounts. It's all 21 million shades of grey, in the end. Just don't fuck with consensus.
I used to enjoy listening to him on his podcast, but he comes across as fairly elitist and kind of an asshole and it’s not so entertaining after a while
I don't even think we're over any particular target. I think this latest thing at least is more so a weird delusion that nostr isn't performing as well as it should because of SN.
and the funny thing is that a lot of people use primal and primal essentially caches everything in a centralized fashion from all the various relays, even though most people are only using two or three. so it's very much similar to SN just more cumbersome because of the decentralization component that's not really even being used
In general, I got a strong ossification vibe from the nostr github devs and decided it was too early for me to put energy into fighting them and would let them work it out while I worked on the "garden" part of SN.
Really? That's a complement. I hardly think it is true but I don't even consider Nostr and SN even close to each other.
Protocol vs a site/community. There's plenty of room for both and they don't really overlap much for me at all. I wish I got half as much value out of Nostr as I do out of SN.
NVK is an interesting dude. He seems extremely hard headed and inconsistent to me. I think he's funny but he seems to take things personal far to much for being a public facing as he is.
Lately I'm getting the sense that we on SN are out of step with a LOT of bitcoiners. I notice this at meetups. KYC is more the norm. Saylor is still a hero. ETFs are cool. Most notably, there is an assumption that using non custodial lightning is too big a pain in the ass. I feel pigeon holed as a hard core nut. I feel like saying what? You should meet @DarthCoin.
I should discard the idea of what "bitcoiners" even are - the tent is probably big enough to render that meaningless. Like talking about people who eat corn flakes as one coherent group.
Anyway, disappointing. I think nostr is a good idea and likely to be important. Making it adversarial w SN is so stupid.
That's disappointing. Especially the "non custodial lightning is too much of a PITA" part. Sounds like it may be another round of people who are in it for the fiat gains, who will disappear in the next bear market.
That's why it's important to meet bitcoiners irl. Go to your local meetup, create one if there is none. Tell people about self custody, decentralization, rules without rulers, etc.
Try living in Austin, its weirder living it day to day. I always say PlebLab will be the last based place on earth. Being non custodial Bitcoin only is hard these days it’s a sacrifice not a lot of companies take. It’s easier to kyc aml your users, it’s lazy.
him, odell, &others have equity as advisors in primal. never disclosed by any. they dont get money from opensats yet its power &influence gets them gifts like this. dont hate the player hate the game. the games the same as ever &the players are liars.
well, if the game is high quality user experience and content, then SN is miles ahead. i use nostr a lot and use primal plus others and the experience is still very bad. i see all comments and content here. over there it is hit or miss.
also, i actually get zaps and interaction here. there it is a ghost town and lame meta talk.
SN is as if digg and reddit had a bitcoin native baby
Exactly. Matt, Marty, NVK and friends went from privacy advocates to money men. They're like that evil pastor cult in the timothy dalton james bond movie. "Send us your sats, we love freedom!" but we're balls deep in our Strike investment and pushing its custodial platform everywhere because we need it to work for us financially.
where do nvk disclose hes an advisor &has equity? where do matt disclose hes an advisor &has equity before ten31? where do the other? where do opensats publish detailed conflicts public? they talk transparent but i see no page with conflicts just promises about take them serious https://opensats.org/docs/conflict.pdf. internal only? so transparent. "give more money jack .. we talk about conflict a lot" sure im the biggest lie. shill without disclose is transparent honest. k sure.
It's interesting that he's on the board of OpenSats, while routinely ranting about bitcoin development being over-funded and there being "too much money sloshing around" (paraphrase).
Being a walled garden is more praise than hate (even if it wasn't intended that way)
As other commenters in this thread have said, SN is often more enjoyable than nostr. Nostr doesn't quite have the engagement because no one likes people who only talk about themselves (which because the clients typically follow the twitter/Facebook like style, that's what you get) those platforms that encourage those types of post only flourish via algorithms that filter out the boring "here's my food" posts with the fakest ass "here's how rich/attractive I am) posts or here's something you hate posts. They're what I would summarize as, human addiction to suffering engagement posts.
Counter to all of that, SN went with more community style posts where people are genuinely interested in each other (Read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" to understand why that's important) and we have a community that will not tolerate anyone making it a miserable place to share with each other.
Nostr doesn't quite have the engagement because no one likes people who only talk about themselves (which because the clients typically follow the twitter/Facebook like style, that's what you get)
Nostr sucks and NVK is the deep throat doing the sucking.
Coldcards are gay shitty python hardware wallets and the Coinkite website sucks and doesn't even take lightning. Their onchain payment doesn't even have a quote system and if price changes your order will never be paid in full. NVK is a shitcoiner shilling retarded nostr
I am a novice when it comes to Nostr but my understanding is that one possible path for Nostr in the future is that some relay's might start charging to store notes. Storing data forever for free often does not work. So paying to post vs paying to use a relay seems to be just a slight difference for a user.
Personally, I fall into the keyboard warrior group that he describes. If a nostr client could make the UI display more like SN that would be to my preference. I had a post about this in the past: #767415
What a episode! The OP_RETURN filter saga got roasted—Odell’s right, the drama’s overhyped, but it’s teaching newbies to question auto-updates, which is clutch.
NVK has always hated SN. Initially he said it was because we were custodial. "SN is cool but it needs to not have IOUs."
Then Primal got a KYC'd custodial wallet and he shilled it day and night as "the best lightning wallet." I lost all respect for him.
I don't know what his problem is exactly, but I appreciate how much he thinks about us.
The whole point of SN is to be garden. To the extent that we have a wall is a function of us prioritizing gardening, bitcoin stuff. We don't want the wall and I'm very happy many awesome developers are working on wall-breaking tech.
I also don't blame these assholes for being agape. I don't expect them to understand what we're trying to do or believe me until it's done.
P.S. If you're a founder of one their portfolio companies, please don't take their advice because it's their advice. Build what you think you should build. The taker is the one that loses when bad advice is given.
SN is my favourite place on the internet.
I love SN more than I do Nostr. Stackernews gives me more information and education than Nostr. In other, I am more empowered by/on SN than Nostr. To be honest, I feel there are more self-sovereign individuals focusing their attention and time on SN than Nostr. The sense of community on SN is far better for me. And the incentives too. God bless SN!
Bro I just want to say I love using Stacker News and the community here. I use it all the time. Haters gonna hate. You guys have built something awesome.
That's because every ten31 investment gets a pass on being custodial, compromising on bitcoin, etc. by ten31 vcs, lps and friends. That whole crew are unfortunately falling prey to the entire industry they said they wouldn't be: shill the portfolio, push one narrative, say one thing in public and another in private.
Bitcoiners are eyes-wide-open people; stay that way. Keeps things in perspective. SN is great. Primal is not good for nostr and fundamentally a mediocre product. Custodial LN can be OK for small amounts. It's all 21 million shades of grey, in the end. Just don't fuck with consensus.
I don't have anything against custody for small amounts. I also don't mind Primal personally.
I hate KYC tho.
I also prefer a more raw nostr experience via Damus/nostrudel, but Primal is trying to appeal to the masses so I get it.
I used to enjoy listening to him on his podcast, but he comes across as fairly elitist and kind of an asshole and it’s not so entertaining after a while
I can see that. I've never really listened to his podcast.
I listen because he has interesting guests on, but he himself is pretty insufferable.
Me either
he's captured by the suits imho
It’s a good sign when people who don’t like what you’re doing feel the need to comment on it.
You only take flak when you’re over the target, as they say.
I don't even think we're over any particular target. I think this latest thing at least is more so a weird delusion that nostr isn't performing as well as it should because of SN.
and the funny thing is that a lot of people use primal and primal essentially caches everything in a centralized fashion from all the various relays, even though most people are only using two or three. so it's very much similar to SN just more cumbersome because of the decentralization component that's not really even being used
fwiw Back when I was working on putting SN on nostr via Outer Space, I was told the caching relays approach to algorithms is the way nostr is expected to work: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/issues/522
In general, I got a strong ossification vibe from the nostr github devs and decided it was too early for me to put energy into fighting them and would let them work it out while I worked on the "garden" part of SN.
Those last three words are the important part.
Really? That's a complement. I hardly think it is true but I don't even consider Nostr and SN even close to each other.
Protocol vs a site/community. There's plenty of room for both and they don't really overlap much for me at all. I wish I got half as much value out of Nostr as I do out of SN.
NVK is an interesting dude. He seems extremely hard headed and inconsistent to me. I think he's funny but he seems to take things personal far to much for being a public facing as he is.
https://xcancel.com/nvk/status/1919114403271606781
deleted by author
Lately I'm getting the sense that we on SN are out of step with a LOT of bitcoiners. I notice this at meetups. KYC is more the norm. Saylor is still a hero. ETFs are cool. Most notably, there is an assumption that using non custodial lightning is too big a pain in the ass. I feel pigeon holed as a hard core nut.
I feel like saying what? You should meet @DarthCoin.
I should discard the idea of what "bitcoiners" even are - the tent is probably big enough to render that meaningless. Like talking about people who eat corn flakes as one coherent group.
Anyway, disappointing. I think nostr is a good idea and likely to be important. Making it adversarial w SN is so stupid.
yes. it is unlikely content lives on nostr for ever and it is unlikely for SN to exist forever. both are important
Yes, bitcoin if it isn't already will not be a community no more than corn flame eaters. That's funny.
Yes. The word doesn't have much meaning. We need new ones. I don't much like the term toxic maximalist, but that's probably how most of "them" see us.
That's disappointing. Especially the "non custodial lightning is too much of a PITA" part. Sounds like it may be another round of people who are in it for the fiat gains, who will disappear in the next bear market.
That's why it's important to meet bitcoiners irl. Go to your local meetup, create one if there is none. Tell people about self custody, decentralization, rules without rulers, etc.
Yep. I was going to post about last night's meet up. There is no substitute for IRL.
yea. imagine if bitcoin talk had zap mediated content. that is SN.
Try living in Austin, its weirder living it day to day. I always say PlebLab will be the last based place on earth. Being non custodial Bitcoin only is hard these days it’s a sacrifice not a lot of companies take. It’s easier to kyc aml your users, it’s lazy.
Well said
In the meantime, @DarthCoin:
i don't know what his conflicts of interest are but he is speaking like someone who is intellectually conflicted
him, odell, &others have equity as advisors in primal. never disclosed by any. they dont get money from opensats yet its power &influence gets them gifts like this. dont hate the player hate the game. the games the same as ever &the players are liars.
well, if the game is high quality user experience and content, then SN is miles ahead. i use nostr a lot and use primal plus others and the experience is still very bad. i see all comments and content here. over there it is hit or miss.
also, i actually get zaps and interaction here. there it is a ghost town and lame meta talk.
SN is as if digg and reddit had a bitcoin native baby
Nostr has less of a zapping culture compared to Stacker News because on Nostr you also have the option of giving a “heart”.
Also, I like “pay to post” because it acts as a spam filter of sorts.
Exactly. Matt, Marty, NVK and friends went from privacy advocates to money men. They're like that evil pastor cult in the timothy dalton james bond movie. "Send us your sats, we love freedom!" but we're balls deep in our Strike investment and pushing its custodial platform everywhere because we need it to work for us financially.
Holy shit. That makes a lot of sense though if true. Smart move by Primal.
"never disclosed by any." might be the biggest lie i have ever seen on the internet. Congrats on that, seriously
where do nvk disclose hes an advisor &has equity? where do matt disclose hes an advisor &has equity before ten31? where do the other? where do opensats publish detailed conflicts public? they talk transparent but i see no page with conflicts just promises about take them serious https://opensats.org/docs/conflict.pdf. internal only? so transparent. "give more money jack .. we talk about conflict a lot" sure im the biggest lie. shill without disclose is transparent honest. k sure.
i have come up with a term for people who are highly intellectual and cannot think holistically: left-brain retards;
It's interesting that he's on the board of OpenSats, while routinely ranting about bitcoin development being over-funded and there being "too much money sloshing around" (paraphrase).
Being a walled garden is more praise than hate (even if it wasn't intended that way)
As other commenters in this thread have said, SN is often more enjoyable than nostr. Nostr doesn't quite have the engagement because no one likes people who only talk about themselves (which because the clients typically follow the twitter/Facebook like style, that's what you get) those platforms that encourage those types of post only flourish via algorithms that filter out the boring "here's my food" posts with the fakest ass "here's how rich/attractive I am) posts or here's something you hate posts. They're what I would summarize as, human addiction to suffering engagement posts.
Counter to all of that, SN went with more community style posts where people are genuinely interested in each other (Read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" to understand why that's important) and we have a community that will not tolerate anyone making it a miserable place to share with each other.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tscc3e5eujrsEeFN4/well-kept-gardens-die-by-pacifism
You couldn't be more right in your words...
by the way, it's great that you cited the great Carnegie's book, an immortal work.
On point 🎯
Hes probably salty he didnt think of it first
Love you koob. Keep doing you
Lost a ln wallet so lost login
@falsefaucet here
You also added nostr as an authentication method. Did you lose that one, too?
Life saver. I had completley forgotten about that thanks you so much!
no worries
I'm not going to bother giving it a click.
NVK also hates on Seed Signer, open source DIY hardware wallet, competes with cold card.
Bad take.
It's literally a few sats to post and even less to reply.
He did an AMA a few years back didn't he?
#79245
I was surprised to hear Odell lay a few punches too. I'll have to troll him harder.
Nostr sucks and NVK is the deep throat doing the sucking.
Coldcards are gay shitty python hardware wallets and the Coinkite website sucks and doesn't even take lightning. Their onchain payment doesn't even have a quote system and if price changes your order will never be paid in full. NVK is a shitcoiner shilling retarded nostr
I like coinkite products but their payment methods are dog shit
My thoughts about his issues he brought up:
When I thought of paying to post, I imagined it as paying to every relay you post to, and read-only use being free.
I just listened again. That really was a random, out of left field attack. Curious
Thanks for sharing! Yea his criticism is bad. Nostr is “free” but there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
Anyone can post to SN that’s the point!
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=krzoDpWfVq8
It is a challenging point between both of them.
idk why he would care to be honest, let people assmilk where they want or build something good enough to lure people away from SN
Like my boy fiddy said, go ahead switch the news up and if they hate, let them hate and watch the satoshis and cowboy credits pile up
🤣🤣🤣 living rent free
What a episode! The OP_RETURN filter saga got roasted—Odell’s right, the drama’s overhyped, but it’s teaching newbies to question auto-updates, which is clutch.