NVK hates on stacker.news as a walled garden (48:48) \ stacker news ~meta

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NVK has always hated SN. Initially he said it was because we were custodial. "SN is cool but it needs to not have IOUs."

Then Primal got a KYC'd custodial wallet and he shilled it day and night as "the best lightning wallet." I lost all respect for him.

I don't know what his problem is exactly, but I appreciate how much he thinks about us.

174 sats \ 3 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 8h

I used to enjoy listening to him on his podcast, but he comes across as fairly elitist and kind of an asshole and it’s not so entertaining after a while

90 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 8h

I can see that. I've never really listened to his podcast.

56 sats \ 0 replies \ @Norbert 1h

I listen because he has interesting guests on, but he himself is pretty insufferable.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 8h

Me either

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 3h

The whole point of SN is to be garden. To the extent that we have a wall is a function of us prioritizing gardening, bitcoin stuff. We don't want the wall and I'm very happy many awesome developers are working on wall-breaking tech.

I also don't blame these assholes for being agape. I don't expect them to understand what we're trying to do or believe me until it's done.

P.S. If you're a founder of one their portfolio companies, please don't take their advice because it's their advice. Build what you think you should build. The taker is the one that loses when bad advice is given.

211 sats \ 2 replies \ @1fatmess 8h

That's because every ten31 investment gets a pass on being custodial, compromising on bitcoin, etc. by ten31 vcs, lps and friends. That whole crew are unfortunately falling prey to the entire industry they said they wouldn't be: shill the portfolio, push one narrative, say one thing in public and another in private.

Bitcoiners are eyes-wide-open people; stay that way. Keeps things in perspective. SN is great. Primal is not good for nostr and fundamentally a mediocre product. Custodial LN can be OK for small amounts. It's all 21 million shades of grey, in the end. Just don't fuck with consensus.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 7h

I don't have anything against custody for small amounts. I also don't mind Primal personally.

I hate KYC tho.

I also prefer a more raw nostr experience via Damus/nostrudel, but Primal is trying to appeal to the masses so I get it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Wumbo 7h

170 sats \ 0 replies \ @chungkingexpress 6h

Bro I just want to say I love using Stacker News and the community here. I use it all the time. Haters gonna hate. You guys have built something awesome.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @byzantine OP 4h

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nitter 4h bot

https://xcancel.com/nvk/status/1919114403271606781

597 sats \ 10 replies \ @siggy47 7h

Lately I'm getting the sense that we on SN are out of step with a LOT of bitcoiners. I notice this at meetups. KYC is more the norm. Saylor is still a hero. ETFs are cool. Most notably, there is an assumption that using non custodial lightning is too big a pain in the ass. I feel pigeon holed as a hard core nut. I feel like saying what? You should meet @DarthCoin.

156 sats \ 2 replies \ @elvismercury 4h

I should discard the idea of what "bitcoiners" even are - the tent is probably big enough to render that meaningless. Like talking about people who eat corn flakes as one coherent group.

Anyway, disappointing. I think nostr is a good idea and likely to be important. Making it adversarial w SN is so stupid.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @byzantine OP 4h

yes. it is unlikely content lives on nostr for ever and it is unlikely for SN to exist forever. both are important

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 54m

Yes. The word doesn't have much meaning. We need new ones. I don't much like the term toxic maximalist, but that's probably how most of "them" see us.

47 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 1h

That's disappointing. Especially the "non custodial lightning is too much of a PITA" part. Sounds like it may be another round of people who are in it for the fiat gains, who will disappear in the next bear market.

70 sats \ 1 reply \ @LibreHans 5h

That's why it's important to meet bitcoiners irl. Go to your local meetup, create one if there is none. Tell people about self custody, decentralization, rules without rulers, etc.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 5h

Yep. I was going to post about last night's meet up. There is no substitute for IRL.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 3h

I feel like saying what? You should meet @DarthCoin.

In the meantime, @DarthCoin:

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @Car 6h

Try living in Austin, its weirder living it day to day. I always say PlebLab will be the last based place on earth. Being non custodial Bitcoin only is hard these days it’s a sacrifice not a lot of companies take. It’s easier to kyc aml your users, it’s lazy.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 3h

Well said

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @byzantine OP 7h

yea. imagine if bitcoin talk had zap mediated content. that is SN.

84 sats \ 7 replies \ @byzantine OP 9h

i don't know what his conflicts of interest are but he is speaking like someone who is intellectually conflicted

266 sats \ 4 replies \ @anon 8h

him, odell, &others have equity as advisors in primal. never disclosed by any. they dont get money from opensats yet its power &influence gets them gifts like this. dont hate the player hate the game. the games the same as ever &the players are liars.

592 sats \ 1 reply \ @byzantine OP 8h

well, if the game is high quality user experience and content, then SN is miles ahead. i use nostr a lot and use primal plus others and the experience is still very bad. i see all comments and content here. over there it is hit or miss.

also, i actually get zaps and interaction here. there it is a ghost town and lame meta talk.

SN is as if digg and reddit had a bitcoin native baby

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @teemupleb 6h

Nostr has less of a zapping culture compared to Stacker News because on Nostr you also have the option of giving a “heart”.

Also, I like “pay to post” because it acts as a spam filter of sorts.

58 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 8h

Holy shit. That makes a lot of sense though if true. Smart move by Primal.

103 sats \ 0 replies \ @1fatmess 8h

Exactly. Matt, Marty, NVK and friends went from privacy advocates to money men. They're like that evil pastor cult in the timothy dalton james bond movie. "Send us your sats, we love freedom!" but we're balls deep in our Strike investment and pushing its custodial platform everywhere because we need it to work for us financially.

281 sats \ 0 replies \ @zapsammy 9h

i have come up with a term for people who are highly intellectual and cannot think holistically: left-brain retards;

6 sats \ 0 replies \ @Norbert 1h

It's interesting that he's on the board of OpenSats, while routinely ranting about bitcoin development being over-funded and there being "too much money sloshing around" (paraphrase).

261 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 7h

Being a walled garden is more praise than hate (even if it wasn't intended that way)

As other commenters in this thread have said, SN is often more enjoyable than nostr. Nostr doesn't quite have the engagement because no one likes people who only talk about themselves (which because the clients typically follow the twitter/Facebook like style, that's what you get) those platforms that encourage those types of post only flourish via algorithms that filter out the boring "here's my food" posts with the fakest ass "here's how rich/attractive I am) posts or here's something you hate posts. They're what I would summarize as, human addiction to suffering engagement posts.

Counter to all of that, SN went with more community style posts where people are genuinely interested in each other (Read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" to understand why that's important) and we have a community that will not tolerate anyone making it a miserable place to share with each other.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tscc3e5eujrsEeFN4/well-kept-gardens-die-by-pacifism

106 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 8h

NVK also hates on Seed Signer, open source DIY hardware wallet, competes with cold card.

49 sats \ 1 reply \ @Wumbo 10h

My thoughts about his issues he brought up:

I am a novice when it comes to Nostr but my understanding is that one possible path for Nostr in the future is that some relay's might start charging to store notes. Storing data forever for free often does not work. So paying to post vs paying to use a relay seems to be just a slight difference for a user.
Personally, I fall into the keyboard warrior group that he describes. If a nostr client could make the UI display more like SN that would be to my preference. I had a post about this in the past: #767415

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 3h

When I thought of paying to post, I imagined it as paying to every relay you post to, and read-only use being free.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @realBitcoinDog 1h

Thanks for sharing! Yea his criticism is bad. Nostr is “free” but there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

Anyone can post to SN that’s the point!

105 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 9h

Bad take.

It's literally a few sats to post and even less to reply.

He did an AMA a few years back didn't he?

76 sats \ 1 reply \ @byzantine OP 9h

#79245

35 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 7h

I was surprised to hear Odell lay a few punches too. I'll have to troll him harder.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 6h

I'm not going to bother giving it a click.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @coinhome 2h

What a episode! The OP_RETURN filter saga got roasted—Odell’s right, the drama’s overhyped, but it’s teaching newbies to question auto-updates, which is clutch.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 2h

go away

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 7h

🤣🤣🤣 living rent free