My friend is eating an almost vegetarian diet. I think it's killing him. \ stacker news ~HealthAndFitness

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My friend is eating an almost vegetarian diet. I think it's killing him.

713 sats \ 32 comments \ @Signal312 17h HealthAndFitness

I have a friend who, when I saw him after a long gap, just looks...terrible. He's lost a lot of height, is very hunched over. He's only in his early 60's, but his legs are like sticks. He has poor balance and falls all the time now, so his legs are also covered with scabs. Apparently this has started about a year and a half ago.

He's been to the doctor a lot over this decline in health. The idiot doctor tells him, "Welcome to your 60's".

What a lot of crap. Your early 60's do not need to be like that. The doctor was not able to pinpoint anything in particular, just blames everything on regular aging.

A little more about my friend - whatever he is, he's not lazy. Until the health collapse he's had over the past couple years, he was very active, tons and tons of aerobic activity, and also weight training. He was never overweight.

Foodwise, he eats precisely what mainstream media puts forth as the standard healthy diet. Tons of veggies, fruits, and whole grains. Loads of legumes. Some poultry and fish. Never any beef or pork. Low fat. He has been taught to regard as green salad as the be-all, end-all of health food. And beef as the exact opposite.

I've tried to talk to him about the carnivore diet, how it's helped me with health issues, how it's helped so many people. I've sent him resources. He's a little bit interested. But when it comes right down to it, he has an extremely hard time considering that the carnivore diet might help him, and is reluctant to actually try anything.

He's been so brainwashed by the overwhelming mainstream nutritional propaganda that, as he put it, "eating beef would be like eating a corpse".

Here's why I'm sympathetic to him. His diet was almost exactly like mine (before I thankfully found the carnivore diet). The "mainstream media" healthy diet. Little to no red meat, put plenty of veggies, fruits, whole grains, and legumes. I didn't have the health problems that he had, but I wasn't at my optimum health, either.

And yet...I had what he does NOT have. A good-sized helping of skepticism. Some cynicism. The willingness to research. With that, and some exposure (thanks to Bitcoiners), I went down the carnivore rabbit hole. I allowed myself to change my opinion. I experimented and was blown away by the positive results.

Here's some of my previous carnivore-related posts: 2025-04: Carnivore hack: how to buy meat without spending a fortune 2025-04: Rendering beef tallow, from beef fat trimmings - yum 2025-04: The most common question I get asked as a Carnivore has been answered 2025-03: I was unknowingly almost vegetarian, before going carnivore 2025-02: Is sugar the new smoking? 2025-02: I would continue with Carnivore even if I got only this ONE benefit 2025-02: Weird, oddball health improvements I've experienced on the Carnivore diet 2024-10: There's currently a propaganda campaign against low-carb diets 2024-07: Carnivore quotes in classical literature 2024-04: Carnivore diet - looks like it fixed this nighttime disorder for me 2024-04: Carnivore diet - believe it or not, it healed this oddball disorder for me 2024-04: Can a keto/carnivore diet heal issues like depression, anxiety, OCD, bipolar? 2024-04: Eating Carnivore on a short trip - tips and tricks 2024-01: Latest steps in my carnivore path 2024-01: Carnivore achievements unlocked 2024-01: Taking a temporary break from mostly-carnivore diet during holidays 2023-12: Sugar and Alzheimers 2023-12: Kinda-carnivore diet is leading to WAY more energy 2024-12: Question for carnivores/carnivore-curious folks 2023-12: I'm transitioning ... to a more MEAT centric diet 2023-11: This book is blowing my mind - The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholtz

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258 sats \ 17 replies \ @Undisciplined 16h

I think you're mostly seeing what you want to see. Lots of people age very well on a diet like that of your friend.

My mom eats a similar diet to that, whereas my dad eats far more meat. She's aging much better than him and they're both much older than your friend.

Where you and I probably agree is that your friend should scrutinize his diet a bit and try to find areas of improvement. There probably are things he's eating that aren't helping and things he's not eating that could help.

10 sats \ 16 replies \ @denlillaapan 12h

Nah, fake news.

It's meat or nothing, bro.

63 sats \ 15 replies \ @Undisciplined 12h

What's the claim you're advancing? That only carnivores manage to be healthy in their old age?

If this guy's less healthy than normal while eating a normal diet, then most likely something else is up.

55 sats \ 8 replies \ @denlillaapan 11h

Anecdotes don't count for much, of course. But do we believe the alternative hypothesis, that healthy/healthspan is either unresponsive to diet, or that carnivore/vegetarian is equivalent for muscle mass/bone density/cognitive persevation etc etc?

Nah, go away with that.

Fine, @Signal312 can't with accuracy know that his specific friend is ill/looking "terrible" is because of his lack of high-quality animal fats... just like you can't draw that the opposite conclusion from your parents.

Still, am I convinced enough that high-quality animal foods are conducive for longevity and health? Yes.

Sure, other variables have positive effects (exercise, smoking, DNA, sunlight, sleep, blah-blah) but that doesn't mean we can't point to the most obviously suspicious one

54 sats \ 3 replies \ @Signal312 OP 11h

I'm not sure about "anecdotes don't count for much".

In the face of:

persistent, widespread denial of the damage that sugar and carbohydrates can do ¹.
persistent propaganda by mainstream media AGAINST eating meat, in particular beef... ²

...I almost trust anecdotes more than establishment science.

I have definitely run into people who (when I'm spouting off about my carnivore diet) tell me that they've been vegan and very healthy for 15 years. I'm not quite sure what to do with that information. Maybe they're not telling the truth, maybe they're vegetarian (plus dairy, eggs, fish) and calling that vegan, maybe they're doing an outstanding job at supplementing a deficient diet. Or maybe there are truly some people who do okay on a vegan diet.

All I know for absolute sure is how I've done with carnivore (SO much better, never going back), and a loved one on keto (tons better as well).

34 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 11h

maybe there are truly some people who do okay on a vegan diet

This is where I'm at.

There are two diets that make no nutritional sense to me (carnivore and fruitarian) but I've met very healthy seeming people who did them for a long time. Maybe everything fell apart for them eventually, but I can't just assume that.

I've also known people whose health has gotten worse on various diets. I'm left with the conclusion that there's just a ton that we still don't know about nutrition.

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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 11h

This is why I say "seeing what you want to see". We didn't hear anything about those other factors and yet you're comfortable with this conclusion. I didn't hear anything that makes it sound "most likely". I heard about someone with a healthier than average diet (less processed foods, less added sugar, etc.) who's suffering more than average infirmities. Nothing about that points to diet as the most likely culprit.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @denlillaapan 10h

Meh. If peeps, from your grandma to the opinion pages of the major newspapers, can do unscientific attribution studies on the fly every time there's a noticeable weather phenomena or, say, unvaxx deaths, I can do the same for vegetable eaters.

On the upside, it has the added benefit of annoying them greatly and dispelling their beliefs in self-virtue

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42 sats \ 5 replies \ @Signal312 OP 11h

I don't think this is even a "normal" diet. He eats way more veggies than most people, and way less meat, and zero red meat.

I'd call it a "healthy as defined by mainstream nutritional advice" diet.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 11h

Fair enough. It's still more meat than literally billions of Asians eat, many of whom age much better than westerners tend to.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @denlillaapan 10h

They look old at 40... I'm not convinced

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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @denlillaapan 10h

I'd call it a "healthy as defined by mainstream nutritional advice" diet. cancel

So... Unhealthy?*

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 OP 9h

So... Unhealthy?

That's certainly how I see it now!

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66 sats \ 0 replies \ @Maximux 16h

In my opinion, eating meat is extremely important for the body, muscles💪, and especially the brain 🧠

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @miraclemarc 11h

Alcohol intake? How is his sleep? Getting sun daily? Mental health? Food is important and can make a big difference but so are all those other things. Get all of it right and you see significant change.

As far as diet goes, IME just eating more meat (showing by example) and talking about it tends to catch on to the people you are around. They start to think, ask questions, maybe read a book. and eventually try to get a little more meat in their diet and see how they feel. So, I think you are doing all that and I think it will probably help him. It seems to me it is hard to get all the nutrients you need eating mainly vegetarian. It is better than processed foods, but worse than eating 80%+ meat.

39 sats \ 1 reply \ @Jer 16h

I think we will see, like most things, that there is no one size fits all approach for every body constitution.

I have one friend who has seen great benefits from a long term, strictly carnivore diet.

I have two friends who have seen major benefits in long term, strictly vegan diets.

Everyone I know who has tried it, has benefited from removing regular alcohol consumption, preservatives and added sugars, opting for a balanced diet of actual food together with regular physical activity.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 11h

Are you human, or are you dancer?

34 sats \ 2 replies \ @itsrealfake 16h

aging's real... but it seems like he's probably not getting great nutrition.

have you pushed him on the diet question?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 OP 11h

I've pushed him as far as I'm comfortable. He brings it up all the time (his recent poor health, his doctor saying "welcome to your 60's".

Next time he bring it up, I might ask something like "what do you think your health prospects are, if you continue with this path?"

He's just been SO scared away of red meat, by mainstream nutritional information. He said something like, "Do you think it would help if I had 1 meal of beef, weekly?" I didn't know what to say.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake 10h

maybe he would explore carnetine supplements?

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bone 15h

It’s probably the excessive exercise that is wearing him down even harder and faster. Over exercising even slightly is terrible for you, and our culture glorifies it. Look at the amount of bodybuilders who die young, look at this Goggins fellow who everyone praises; he’s had multiple knee surgeries, all before age 55, and he continues his ritual of self-hatred. He’s destroying his body.

Of course, if you aren’t getting proper nutrients from animals and especially at an older age, you are going to suffer harder.

How many times has he been with Maxine?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 OP 11h

He hasn't been doing the excessive exercise for a good while now - I don't think he can anymore. But I agree, and know of a few other cases where I thought over exercising caused health issues.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitcoiner1 11m

I've been eating 95% a vegetarian diet for 5 years and doing exercises and I feel great.

There are many ways to get protein been a vegetarian, so no meat for me.

Not everyone has the same metabolism and not everyone will age at the same pace.

P.s: you don't need to eat meat to be a Bitcoiner. ;)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @realBitcoinDog 6h

You’re a true carnivore!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @398ja 9h

If it's mainstream as you say, it's very unlikely not a vegetarian diet, but a processed food diet masquerading as such

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00ft 16h freebie

I'd be worried if you said vegan. With a vegetarian diet he should be able to get all the nutrients he needs and then some. It's probably he's cooking/eating wrong - e.g. we are made to eat mostly cooked food. If he's eating too much raw veggies that will have negative effects in time, especially affecting energy levels. So he should learn to cook nutrient dense foods.

Then comes the quality of the veggies. A lot of the supermarket veggies are trash and have like 10% of the nutrition they need to have even though they look great. Switch the source to something else if at all possible.

Combine that with feta cheese or similar and he should be golden!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lumor 16h

What do you make of Ray Peat - maybe that would be an easier alternative for your friend?

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