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Write an opinion you think is hated on SN. 2nd lowest rated comment wins.

4228 sats \ 113 comments \ @Michelson_Morley 20 Oct 2023 meta

zaps forwarded to @ek (100%)

End will be in 5 days. I won't give exact time in order to discourage trickery.

I'm not asking for an unpopular opinion/idea YOU agree with— Write any idea/opinion you think MOST OTHER STACKERS disagree with.
Gibberish comments will be discarded

Why not pick lowest ranked post, why second lowest? Why indeed.. :)

Remember, you can flag posts to "downvote" them. Have fun

80,000 sats paid

Michelson_Morley's bounties

view all past bounties

1056 sats \ 7 replies \ @grayruby 20 Oct 2023

Hodlers who say they are never going to sell are likely going to sell some of their stack once we hit 6 figures.

81 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 20 Oct 2023

Sorry, but I think there's some truth there.

176 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 20 Oct 2023

I think it depends on people's situations. As convicted as a bitcoiner you may be if you have a young family and need a house for them and selling 1/2 of your stack buys you one or helps buy you one you will probably do it. It's not the best economic decision but it may be the best lifestyle decision for people.

163 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 20 Oct 2023

The most hated opinions, need to have some element of truth in them. Otherwise they only have comedic value

163 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek fwd 20 Oct 2023

Im not going to sell for fiat but fulfill some dreams :)

Or maybe not at lower six figures yet.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 20 Oct 2023

Different for each person.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @TeslaLiberty 20 Oct 2023

When you say sell, you don't mean sell or spend right ?

Only sell for fiat

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 21 Oct 2023

I meant sell for fiat but I guess you could include spend if you spent a good portion of your stack on something and didn't replace the sats. If you buy a house with Bitcoin (I know this has been done a couple times) that would effectively be the same as selling for fiat and then buying a house with the fiat.

240 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 20 Oct 2023

@k00b is wasting his time with this project and would be better off finding a job in big tech

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 20 Oct 2023

Oh good one!

358 sats \ 24 replies \ @k00b 20 Oct 2023

Given that people are meeting the prompt requirements, shouldn't it be the top comment?

Intuitively I want to zap like "oh that's a terrible take, great job"

5635 sats \ 20 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 21 Oct 2023

:) Let me explain the experiment a bit then, since it doesn't make any difference for the results, and I would be happy to hear suggestions and criticism of any kind.

I am interested in ways to encourage people (in tight-knit communities: i call them pseudofamilies) to express terrible ideas.

Pseudofamilies (e.g. stacker.news, countries, religious sects) have collective intelligence because it's ok to be wrong, and you will be error-corrected without fear of exclusion. There is psychological safety, as google puts it.

In this way, error-correction, the collective gains intelligence. But unlike biological families where genetics determine membership, pseudofamilies determine membership by way of dogma. Axioms. E.g. If I believe that transwomen are all simply men who dress like women, then I am excluded from the trans pseudofamily.

These two phenomena lead pseudofamilies to stagnation, loss of swarm intellect. How many times must you error correct an altcoin-supporting new member before you ignore/ban them instead? The more a collective learns, the more axioms are established, and the more haram it becomes to say dumb ideas.

So to answer the question about the experiment:

If the winner is the most zapped one, then the incentive for players is "write something that coyly implies I know our true values". But I want to incentivize fearless error expression: I want players to "write something wrong".
By telling people to guess what the pseudofamily thinks is wrong, there is no implication that the writer should be excluded; it is not their own opinion they are expressing. It is a way to incentivize collective observation of what dogma/axioms we actually have.
The game is designed so that zapping people is hurting their chance of winning. Instead, the incentive is to zap those you don't want to win. This means players who zap are forced to either support a position they disagree with, or let it win 80k sats.
Conversely with zonks (which is a word i just invented to describe our "downvotes", flagging. correct me if you have better nomenclature). It also encourages new comments/errors.

In summary, I want to encourage tolerance of expression of bad ideas by letting players de-radicalize themselves though performing haram actions. If you ask a man a small favor and he agrees, he is more likely to agree later to a greater favor. To give a fundamentalist the chance to consider the ideas of their heretics, first convince them to shake the heretics hand.

The "second to last ranked" vs just picking the lowest ranked comment is left as an exercise to the reader :)

5450 sats \ 14 replies \ @elvismercury 21 Oct 2023

Kudos for this interesting experiment, and the interesting theory behind it.

A thing I think about a lot wrt online communities is how to encourage "good-ness" where "good" is a tricky term to define. Maybe it's easier to say what it's not: what gets produced by the classic advertising model, where the site is hell-bent on increasing time-on-site, driving "engagement" (for a certain type of engagement), click-throughs, etc.

I think we all have a gut feel for how shitty and poisonous this is. What it feels like. So what are other ways a site can feel, what are other objective functions one could aspire to that affirm something valuable, that add something good to the world? How might one design for that, what interactions might encourage it?

There's some aspects of your "pseudo-family" idea in there, I think.

4670 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 21 Oct 2023

We share the same concerns. The ad-model, any business model where the users aren't paying for their lunch, will lead to enshittification. It's heartbreaking to see how easy it is to make a community turn on (report) each other, how banal / normal the people who thrive on doing that are, "the people who point at witches". Show them a picture of a witch (provided conveniently by your advertiser-partners) and see the toxic fire spread.

I think of these pointer people like our immune systems T-cells, their job is to hook onto "bad guys", show them a picture (vaccine) of one and they make sure you never see a nazi/polio again. So i have sympathy for these people. Though thanks to ad-model businesses, they mostly cause auto-immune responses.

As for how to encourage non-toxicity. Your guess is as good as mine. I think stacker can overtake reddit and hacker.news within a year if they play it right. Users are not the product on this site. This is the way to do it. Just need to lobby apple to allow zaps to people (or solve that through a apple-gated sidechain). It'll explode.

365 sats \ 12 replies \ @k00b 21 Oct 2023

So what are other ways a site can feel, what are other objective functions one could aspire to that affirm something valuable, that add something good to the world?

I'd love to start a dialog around this because if SN has a generic advantage over other for-profit community sites this is it.¹

what are other objective functions one could aspire to that affirm something valuable

I haven't figured this out. It's at least providing what other social media sites provide, but faster.

A bitcoin nomad stopped through @PlebLab for a few months and shared private social media market research his company conducted that overwhelming showed people wanted truth faster.²

Perhaps one of the consequences of optimizing for time on site is slowing down our discovery of truth? Perhaps an algorithm optimized for time on site directly or indirectly wants us in a state of engaged confusion. What warrants expending more time than solving a mystery?

How might one design for that, what interactions might encourage it?

If trad SM is designed to avoid it, whatever it is, then not avoiding it goes some distance.

As far as interactions, I like to think about virtualizing real life interactions. Mostly because there's thousands of years of prior art available. So I don't know, but that's where I like to look.

Earning is an advantage most people would think of, but it isn't generic. The benefits of earnings will follow a power law we can only ever attenuate. ↩
There was no close second thing that they want. "There is no second best." ↩

5137 sats \ 2 replies \ @elvismercury 21 Oct 2023

This is so intriguing. I'm trying to think of what truth faster could mean.

Related tangent: I have been obsessed, for several years now, with the question of: how fast can you learn something? This question can be answered in a dumb way and a smart way.

The dumb way is operationalize 'learn' it a really shallow fashion, for instance, being able to translate foreign language vocabulary, trivially, in a flashcard, e.g., they show you "amar" and you say "to love". Now maximize that.

The smart way is to ask: what does it mean to know something? Which is a hell of a question. If we stay in the realm of foreign language learning, it might be: to deploy this word ("amar") usefully, in context. To understand how it is used, which is always a little different across langauges, even for simple things. (In Spanish, for instance, you wouldn't say "te amo" to your mom, even though in English you would say "I love you" to her.)

For a less stupid example, when it comes to extracting maximum value out of something like a book, I read so slowly. Many smart people read 100 books a year, I do a fraction of that, but I write in them, I dwell on them, I connect the ideas to other ideas, I look up articles on salient points. It is glacially slow, but at the end I can say that I possess the book in a way that most don't; I have the book's knowledge deeply integrated with the rest of the things that I understand. It is work to do this! It takes so long. And on the surface I read so much less than my friends. But the product of our having read is quite different.

So, with all that said, I'm trying to think of what truth faster could mean in this context. What kind of truth is it that people seem to want? What can they do, as a result of having appertained those truths? What would the ideal experience be? Is it closer to 100 books, like my friends do, or five books, like I do?

1415 sats \ 1 reply \ @Michelson_Morley OP 22 Oct 2023

Your are wise. How fast can we learn something? What an interesting question. Autistic savants show us that the brain can do things like perfectly drawing a city in every detail after a single helicopter ride (like your flash card). Indeed it seems that what the neurotypical brain is doing is "forget as much as possible", and savants are disabled in their ability to forget.

Have you heard / read the philosopher/psychiatrist Iain McGilchrist? His books/lectures/videos on the way our brains work, specifically how our two brain-hemispheres interact with the world. You'd like him. The right hemisphere always keeping context, the left ignoring as much as it can in order to focus. Right hemisphere looks for signs of predators, left hemisphere looks at the prey it can grab. Here's a short clip where he discusses the importance of context.

I hope truth faster means honesty. That's what I want and seek out. Weird people, excluded, horrible, arrogant—if they are honest i want to read and hear them. Hook me up with analog cable to the minds of every idiot and nutcase out there. That'd be fast truth.

Hopefully @k00b can get us more info on that research!

2239 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 22 Oct 2023

I love McGilchrist -- I've seen / listened to a number of interviews w/ him and really respect the work he's done. I have yet to read his masterpieces, but they're on my list. (It's such a commitment for me, as mentioned earlier, but I really do want to get to them.)

As part of my obsession with this idea of learning stuff, I've dabbled in some of the accounts that you've described, of savant-like learning. It's been notable to me that of the examples I've come across, the learning in most cases comes with crippling downsides. Borges wrote a famous short story about one such example. A related idea, which you referred to, is the massive process of neural pruning that takes place as babies grow. Forgetting is a crucial part of being in the world. Without a good forgetting algorithm, we are crippled.

Point of all that is that simply "recording" things is a poor analogue for what we usually mean by learning. What we really want, usually, is something more approximated by "synthesis". I think this is consistent with the truth faster examples that @ekzyis and @k00b are giving -- they want, with maximum speed, to integrate the truth with their models of reality. (I think this is what they're asking for, having read the posts.)

I've been noodling on what this would mean in an online-community context, and what it would take to build for it. It would be fun to discuss in some venue.

100 sats \ 7 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 21 Oct 2023

research his company conducted that overwhelming showed people wanted truth faster.

This is fascinating. I've mentioned this elsewhere, an idea for a feature I want in a social network: Live replay of typing. Just like in google docs, seeing people type, misspell, correct, pause, etc, before submitting, is this not truth faster? I see it as a midpoint between a phone call and a text message, in terms of emotional information carried. Would mitigate botting as well.

213 sats \ 6 replies \ @k00b 21 Oct 2023

This is fascinating.

Right?! It's so obviously true yet so obviously not what's being optimized for.

I've mentioned this elsewhere, an idea for a feature I want in a social network: Live replay of typing

Well some of the hidden truth of my comment is that it probably took me 40 minutes to write lol.

Just like in google docs, seeing people type, misspell, correct, pause, etc, before submitting

I think that'd be really neat but are we conflating transparency with truth? Truth is knowing an animal was killed for your meal. Transparency is watching it die before you eat.

Transparency is truth slower I think. But to your point, also truth verifiable.

I've taken to modifying truth faster to be relevant truth faster which I'm not sure is in line with the research, yet makes more sense to me.

336 sats \ 1 reply \ @Michelson_Morley OP 21 Oct 2023

I can't find the research from pleblab, do you have a link? Sounds very interesting.

By truth faster, does it mean e.g. twitter/tiktok, live content from celebrities/experts, minutes away?

What is relevant truth? What is truth for that matter, are we talking mathmatical publications or are we talking content from people who users trust? This is all very intriguing

371 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 21 Oct 2023

Oh it wasn't research from @PlebLab. @PlebLab is a coworking space in Austin.

It's private research that I've never seen myself. A friend just shared the tldr of the results with me verbally.

I'll reach out and see if he can share the full report with me and double back to summarize them (assuming they're meant to be kept private).

By truth faster, does it mean e.g. twitter/tiktok, live content from celebrities/experts, minutes away?

Format was irrelevant afaik. Authoritativeness of sources were probably marginally important too.

I'm exclusively guessing, but I think truth just means factual, fast means somehow obviously factual, and relevant truth (being my variation) means facts the person cares about.

reply on another page

266 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek fwd 22 Oct 2023

Well some of the hidden truth of my comment is that it probably took me 40 minutes to write lol.

Yesterday, I wrote a Github comment and after finishing it, I looked at the clock and thought, wtf, that took me 40 minutes!

Then I looked again and realized it was 1h and 40 minutes. Still can't believe it, I must have done something else in between, lol

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @elvismercury 22 Oct 2023

I love this. I bet you are a kickass developer. And, insofar as you are not a kickass developer, you are moving with great velocity toward that endpoint.

Writing is thinking. Taking time to craft your thoughts about a commit, and to express them clearly, is a gift to others, and also like an intense workout for you.

Now I want to check out the repo and read these commit messages :)

view replies

162 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 22 Oct 2023

Writing is hard. But worth it.

reply on another page

114 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek fwd 22 Oct 2023

people wanted truth faster

lol, I just realized that's also the reason why I am here

I am here to learn and hear all kinds of opinions so I can make up my mind on my own.

I guess that's what "truth faster" means.

But it shouldn't be a race. Else you might get lost.

Or find yourself clinging to a "local maximum", believing you find the truth when in fact you just find your truth

It comes back to time preference again, I guess.

462 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 21 Oct 2023

Thanks for sharing the motivation and experiment design!

I <3 the experiment but unless I'm misunderstanding it doesn't benefit from being confusing. Could the prompt be better written as

Write an opinion everyone loves to hear on SN. Lowest ranking comment wins.

Your prompt is like a double negative.

Conversely with zonks (which is a word i just invented to describe our "downvotes", flagging. correct me if you have better nomenclature). It also encourages new comments/errors.

We've been calling it a downzap, but zonk is fun.

90 sats \ 1 reply \ @Michelson_Morley OP 21 Oct 2023

Hm you might be right about the title. I've been told many times that i use double negatives excessively.

Write an opinion everyone loves to hear on SN. Lowest ranking comment wins.

I worry this title would be detrimental for lurkers; people who just zap but don't comment. They would end up seeing a list of our axioms/dogma and since they're here they'd agree and zap them, thus reinforcing the dogma for all. The benefitors would be the small number of people who actually tried to win the bounty. Im not sure. I'll think on this more.

downzap— excellent. Reminds me a bit of reddit (hm). Trying to think of the antonym of a zap. "Unzap" is a contender, but would be misleading because people might think they get their money back if they click it after accidentally zapping. Paz, zink, zuck, zonk, they don't work because they don't communicate that the action entails sending LND. Downzap is best.

114 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek fwd 22 Oct 2023

Paz, zink, zuck, zonk, they don't work because they don't communicate that the action entails sending LND. Downzap is best.

I think that doesn't matter so much. That you know that zap is sending sats over lightning is also something which wasn't immediately obvious. Only experience told you that that's it. Not sure if there is even a definitive definition on that? It's probably just a swarm thing.

We can now build on that swarm knowledge using zonk. Zonk is related to zap and zonk sounds as if it's a sad sound in minor / disharmonic (?), so I think you just need to explain it once to each person (like zaps) and they won't forget.

Also it's too late. I'll use zonk now haha

113 sats \ 1 reply \ @CruncherDefi 22 Oct 2023

The game is designed so that zapping people is hurting their chance of winning. Instead, the incentive is to zap those you don't want to win. This means players who zap are forced to either support a position they disagree with, or let it win 80k sats.

You are assuming all players are doing greedy action, but I'd say the financial incentive is too low for that.

For me to go into full-greedy-actions-mode (instead of cooperative actions that look for genuine winner) the financial incentive would need to be substantial. I just zapped replies that I genuinely agree with.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 22 Oct 2023

I just zapped replies that I genuinely agree with.

Excellent! Thank you for playing. I actually don't assume anyone is doing anything due to greed. Almost everyone willl (i hypothesize) behave as you describe, they'll zap what they agree with.

But what will people comment?

244 sats \ 1 reply \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 21 Oct 2023

I truly don’t know how to interact with this post lol

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 22 Oct 2023

Replace "post" with "life", and baby, you got yourself a sandwich. And by sandwich I mean me. You got yourself a me. Mario.

disclaimer: I'm currently on a bit of s-ketamine, so this post may be unintentionally Mario related.

234 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 20 Oct 2023

My thoughts exactly

122 sats \ 0 replies \ @tip_nz 20 Oct 2023

Stacker News should have integrated PayPal instead of sats.

46 sats \ 0 replies \ @6l 21 Oct 2023 freebie

Craig Wright is the true and one and only Satoshi Nakamoto

131 sats \ 0 replies \ @03393ec3a3 20 Oct 2023

21M hard cap will result in disaster, and we need tail emission to bolster orderly chain progression.

113 sats \ 1 reply \ @petertodd 21 Oct 2023

Bitcoin should have had 1 BTC/block forever. 21 million is a stupid meme.

https://petertodd.org/2022/surprisingly-tail-emission-is-not-inflationary

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @jk_14 22 Oct 2023

that's not a free market solution type ;)

free market between active and passive Bitcoin users is when - in case of network difficulty regression after 4 years from particular halving - the next halving will be delayed by additional 4 years

so, no predefined level of tail emission, just free market in its finest :)

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @provolone 20 Oct 2023

There's nothing wrong with perception of Bitcoin culture! The outward action of the identity of the community is totally not alienating to the general population and not a huge barrier to mainstream acceptance!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 20 Oct 2023

I'll start with a terrible example, terrible because it is not unpopular. Other than this I won't participate.

"Bitcoin is the digital equivalent of gold"

25 sats \ 0 replies \ @CruncherDefi 20 Oct 2023

Keynesians are right!

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 21 Oct 2023

Bitcoin is not digital energy and if you think it is you are retarded

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @0330830bf9 20 Oct 2023

The military industrial complex is on our (bitcoins) side and likely created it. Satoshi was NSA.

The psyops in the news are WW3 being fought in darkness as a mutiny against the banks.

1011 sats \ 2 replies \ @tnuts420 20 Oct 2023

libertarians are like house cats, completely dependent on a system they neither understand nor appreciate, and fiercely confident in their own independence

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @_b_o_n_e_s_ 21 Oct 2023

lol I like this one. triggered at least one.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK 20 Oct 2023

And how would You describe Your own political philosophy?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @newnym 20 Oct 2023

Fractional reserve banking is not the problem that bitcoiners say it is.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @a_free_robot 20 Oct 2023

Most of the Bitcoin, Bitcoin Lightning, and Nostr crowds are Bitcoin maximalists that create and echo chamber (ie. the term "shitcoin") among themselves, unable to see the potential value of alternatives.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @tnstacker8 20 Oct 2023

ETH ads solid diversification to ones portfolio

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Murch 20 Oct 2023

Bitcoin is digital energy

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @phygit 20 Oct 2023

Bitcoin maximalism sucks.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bullen 20 Oct 2023

Being vegan is morally and environmentally better.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @jeff 20 Oct 2023

Custodied Bitcoin is better than physical government cash.

116 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek fwd 20 Oct 2023

Thanks, but why forward to me btw?

777 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 20 Oct 2023

A 100% forward is required to make the game work. I just chose you randomly since we recently interacted (forward could just as well have been anyone working at sn)

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @Danny_stacks_sats 20 Oct 2023

People make too big of a deal out kyc. And the non-kyc markets are too small right now.

It's very hard for me to buy and sell non-kyc even in Canada with hodlhodl.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 20 Oct 2023

Depending on non-KYC transaction for btc distribution will ensure it will make no impact for a hundred years; alternately, it will ensure that the overwhelming majority of btc is held by people or entities that bitcoiners despise.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 20 Oct 2023

The vast majority of bitcoin will always be held and used custodially.

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @tomlaies 20 Oct 2023

The Bitcoin community is full of people who:

are just here because the exchange rate with the dollar. They're not really convinced Bitcoiners out of the ideals even if they tell temselves that
are just here because they are reactionaries. They are just here to "own the libs". They're not really convinced Bitcoiners out of the ideals and will be gone once the left stops caring
miscellaneous unserious people. Like ufos or vaccine-chips or 5g waves and shit. And they are harming Bitcoin adoption

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Turdinthepunchbowl 20 Oct 2023

Free speech isn't freedom from consequences. Secondly, free speech isn't under attack by politicians and politics, it's more threatened by corporations and industry monopolies. The anger needs to be redirected from the puppets to the puppeteers.

115 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei 20 Oct 2023

The flippening is inevitable. ETH will surpass BTC to be number 1.

115 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 20 Oct 2023

Bitcoin is slow and alt coins like Eth and Tron are faster and superior.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @locomancell 21 Oct 2023

Buying Bitcoin is an investment ...

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @rax0m 21 Oct 2023

Money printing / artificially low rates is needed to "borrow from the future" so that innovation happens at all, otherwise growth would stifle

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Believe 21 Oct 2023

I hate Shitcoinery on @SN cuz this is bitcoin only community

So talk only about bitcoin!

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @AfroBitcoin 21 Oct 2023

Crime is paid for using Bitcoin :(

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @lightwalker 21 Oct 2023

This is not easy to approach. But I think anything that's against real freedom, wouldn't be accepted.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @chungkingexpress 21 Oct 2023

Wallet of Satoshi is the best Lightning Wallet and is far superior to self custody.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 21 Oct 2023

The greatest coder, Dr. Craig S Wright, truly is Satoshi. Moreover, He will lead all us sinners to the promised land of Bitcoin Satoshi's Vision thru his genius, integrity and honesty.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 21 Oct 2023

Satoshi cratered Bitcoin for Windows Windows is the only trusted platform for bitcoin

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @southside263 21 Oct 2023

tax is love.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 20 Oct 2023

Is it the second winner because information is incomplete like in a second price auction? (Given ranking disfavors more recent unzapped posts.)

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @danieltapa 20 Oct 2023

cold wallets and metal plates are overrated.

if i generate my seed in a personal clean computer with a well known opensource hot wallet, write it on paper (+ backup) and hide it with no single point of failure, i can sleep well at night.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @FRNdisrespector 20 Oct 2023

I think if they sold Bitcoins at a cheaper price maybe more people would buy it

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @lnpwhot 20 Oct 2023

Bitcoin needs further regulation and custodial offerings for widespread future adoption among general public.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @knorozov 20 Oct 2023

You haven't thought very well about this post.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @2bithits 20 Oct 2023

Increasing the bitcoin supply

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @IanMalcolmPhd 20 Oct 2023

the dollar is not going to hyper inflate

My personal view is that I don't know.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 20 Oct 2023

Chain surveillance companies & regulations are helping Bitcoin adoption.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @FRNdisrespector 20 Oct 2023

Controversial =/= unpopular, you're going to have tons of posts with 0 interaction to choose from.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @021e1f393f 20 Oct 2023

Lets understand something we don't need to fear CBDCs because we already live in a surveilance dystopia, if you think we are not already in that world let me prove it to you.

Only private CryptoCurrencys allow real free trade, in bitcoin and all the other shitcoins you have companys like ciphertrace giving the information to goverments to analize the blockchain and track "undesired" wallets.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/israel-freezes-crypto-accounts-seeking-hamas-donations-police-say-2023-10-10/

Metamask tracks users IPs https://reclaimthenet.org/metamask-starts-tracking-user-ips

MakerDAO, a "decentralized Dao" cucks to the us goverment and bans ips from vpns. https://twitter.com/ChrisBlec/status/1688244517525139456

And lets not forget goverment regulations, while necessary for some retarded moonboys falling to scammers its nontheless a litmus test for whats actually usefull in crypto and for whats gambling garbage.

https://www.coindesk.com/learn/mica-eus-comprehensive-new-crypto-regulation-explained/

Freedom

The etimology of freedom comes from the word, Eleutheria (ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑ), The word comes from arriving (eleu) to where one loves (eran). The word basically implys free movement and free trade, the moment the athenians reached their peak was when they dominated the athenian league and they could exert their will into other greek states and they had the time to discuss philosophy and more abstract concepts, after losing the sparta-athenian war the athenians lost their freedom because they were now in the service of sparta and the athenian league was dismantled.

Freedom only exist in master morality, for slave morality freedom means negative liberty which is the absence of obstacles and this is the type of freedom that the boomer untermensch and the oversocialized leftie love to defend, Positive liberty instead is possibility of acting — or the fact of acting — in such a way as to take control of one’s life and that also requires the acting of removing or constraining the liberty of others and that could include constraining the freedom of the burgoise.

Lets go back to 2008, satoshi was a cypherpunk and he contacted other cypherpunks like the guy that died from alz, there was no denying that these cypherpunks were revolutionary in creating a peer to peer currency native to the internet, basically bitcoin Deterritorializes the control of money from the burgoeise which control finance and the state, however we know technology is a thug of war game and innovation is a requirement to win against the terroralization force of the state, surveilance is a territoalizating force, if the state is capable of controling CryptoCurrencys by watching the blockchain and seizing wallets in centralized exchanges then the state is capable of controling the desire of capital to run from constains, the accelerationist position is to support the cypherpunks in their quest to use technology to abolish the state, this basic desire has been forgotten and diluted by surveilance blockchains and moonboys wanting lambos without any work, heck its funny they will only get their lambos if crypto achieves full independence from the state.

So you can't trust the Daos in open blockchains like etherium, you can't trust the web wallet providers, you can't trust your local exchange, heck bitcoin might be decentralized but its not as usefull as monero and darkfi, in Darkfi there is anonimous DAOs and darkpools, i went to elsalvador for 2 weeks to fulfil my desire to use money that its outside the state control, eventually i wanted to use dollars because it was hard to use bitcoin alone but i managed to do it even more in a place like el zonte, the more people use CryptoCurrency the more it will become common in society just like smartphones became a common necessity in society, we need the moonboys because more usage means the network effect gets stronger nontheless the revolutionary potential in cryptocurrencys doesn't rely on bitcoin itself or the moonboys adopting it but on the ideals of cypherpunks writing the code and because we know cypherpunks are the ones fighting for the future they are also the ones where you should invest your money in. Basically bitcoin for the most part is a failure and i feel its stagnating, its not as revolutionary as people intend to be and to be honest bitcoiners endlessly repeat the same satoshi tales its boring

10.1k sats \ 1 reply \ @elvismercury 20 Oct 2023

Also, I like the game-theoretic twist of making it the second-lowest rated comment. Very clever :)

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 20 Oct 2023

lets get surreal baby!

10k sats \ 2 replies \ @CruncherDefi 20 Oct 2023

META COMMENT:

This scoring system is bad. It incentivizes delaying posting as long as possible - the longer the post is up, the longer the time window for it to collect sats. It also incentivizes making posts that do not catch the attention (no bolds, no pics, no highlights) which is less fun.

Imho you should have gone for reverse-scoring system.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 21 Oct 2023

I've changed my mind about the time window; you are correct in that 5 days was too long of a deadline. 5 days is long enough that people will feel like there's no point submitting anything until the last day, so more users would play if i had set a 24h deadline or less. I'll remember that for next time. Thank you.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 20 Oct 2023

The longer the post is up, the longer the time window for it to be downvoted, no?

How do you mean reverse scoring? And what do you think the end goals are? :)

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 21 Oct 2023

The CIA controls bitcoin. (I do not hold this opinion)

80k sats \ 5 replies \ @birdeye21 20 Oct 2023

Craig Wright is Satoshi!!

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 25 Oct 2023

WINNER! Bad luck @DiracDelta.

The "deleted by author" posts count under the rule of discarding nonsense posts, for anyone wondering.

10k sats \ 1 reply \ @DeltaClimbs 25 Oct 2023

ah, oh well. This is a better comment to win the contest anyway :)

21k sats \ 0 replies \ @Michelson_Morley OP 25 Oct 2023

Since you were both 1st and 3rd and so close to 2nd here's a runner up prize (I actually almost forgot that the contest ended today, was about to go to sleep haha)

113 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 25 Oct 2023

Oh wow haha, forgot this. Thank you!!

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @AfroBitcoin 20 Oct 2023

I love this one :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 25 Oct 2023

Seed oils are good pizza toppings

63 sats \ 8 replies \ @Zepasta 20 Oct 2023

deleted by author

13 sats \ 7 replies \ @elvismercury 20 Oct 2023

And now you're trusting your ability to securely maintain a piece of paper; or a piece of paper plus some arcane process for encrypting it.

Everything is tradeoffs.

13 sats \ 5 replies \ @Zepasta 20 Oct 2023

deleted by author

13 sats \ 4 replies \ @elvismercury 20 Oct 2023

Cheapness is not my concern -- my concern is storing a significant chunk of savings on something that is trivially compromised if someone has physical possession.

And yes, I have multiple hardware wallets, for the reason you said. I have zero worry that Mossad or the CIA is going to secretly crack them. I'd have a lot more worry that someone will start cutting off one of my family's toes. This isn't a technology problem.

Not trying to talk you out of Seed Signer, you do you. It's important to have a solid understanding of whatever threat model you think is most relevant to your situation.

160 sats \ 3 replies \ @Signal312 20 Oct 2023

Just trying to understand - are these the alternatives that are being discussed here?

Standard hardware wallet, with pin. Not stateless, the seed is actually on the hardware wallet. Presumably the hardware wallet is maybe in a safe somewhere, or otherwise hidden. But the pin - is it memorized, and never written down? And of course you'd need the seedphrase backed up somewhere too. And a potential pass phrase.
SeedSigner with SeedQR. SeedQR is kept safe (in an actual safe, or a hiding spot, whatever). The SeedSigner device with it, or not. Potentially with a pass phrase that also needs to be kept safe and secure somewhere, probably separate.

Here's my thoughts. If the hardware wallet pin is NOT written down somewhere, you could easily forget it. If it is written down somewhere, then ... how is it substantially different in terms of security from a seed qr, potentially with a separate pass prhase?

Not thinking about multisig at the moment, which of couses changes things.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 21 Oct 2023

You're basically right. People can do it in a number of ways, so it's hard to talk about the differences definitively, but the two solutions can be made nearly equivalent -- hw wallet plus pass phrase with PIN, vs SeedQR with pass phrase.

With a QR code, physical possession of the paper decays to the strength of your passphrase. With a hardware wallet, there's still a PIN to get through before that's true. PIN can be much lower security -- it's pretty easy to memorize a 4-6 digit number, allowing for a range of barriers depending on threat model.

With HW wallet, you can write down your seed phrase, or not, as you like. You can use multisig to obviate the need to write anything down at all, which is how Casa does it. Either way, you have, at worst, equivalent security to QR, but you can choose to have more or less.

And practically, it's a quite different affair to give a little electronic doodad to someone you trust, along w/ a PIN, vs pieces of paper and instructions on how to reconstitute from a SeedSigner.

If you want to strawman things, you can make either one terrible.

13 sats \ 1 reply \ @Zepasta 21 Oct 2023

deleted by author

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 21 Oct 2023

If you use a strong passphrase, the two are equivalent from a security perspective, since hw wallets also allow passphrases.

A piece of paper is easier to hide than a hardware wallet, but physical possession -- or even momentary appearance on camera -- compromises it, minus any passphrase, whereas a hardware wallet is robust to those things -- you have to defeat the PIN before you can even start on the passphrase.

I suppose SeedSigner could be cheaper, but it's certainly not easier, unless you're using some weird definition of 'easier'.

Footnotes

"Bitcoin is the digital equivalent of gold"

the dollar is not going to hyper inflate