My Stacker News Anxieties \ stacker news ~meta

4474 sats \ 79 comments \ @siggy47 12 Dec 2023 meta

I was reluctant to make this post, since I am sort of superstitious and I don’t want to attract negative attention to my favorite virtual hangout. I’m a natural pessimist, so it goes without saying that I hope my fears are unwarranted.

Territories Upheaval

I have embraced territories with both hands. I have three right now. I believe this innovation can go far to further bitcoin adoption. The potential is immense, and that’s what worries me.

SN Centralization

For all its cutting edge incentives and tech creativity, Stacker News is in essence a web site. Even more worrisome, it’s a web site based in the U.S. It has transformed overnight from a small clubhouse for us all to learn and discuss bitcoin into a chaotic, growing, and potentially very profitable business. It’s only a matter of time before U.S. three letter agencies will be snooping around, and maybe visiting Austin, subpoenas in hand, if even just to let their presence be known. This will almost certainly be the case if Stacker News is as successful as I think it can be. I know the principals of SN to be the most honest, decent people in the world. They would not violate the law. That’s not the point. I don’t trust the government. I would feel much better if SN was headquartered in el Salvador. The web site is an obvious point of vulnerability. I know there has been talk of non custodial wallets, nostr integration, etc, which will go a long way towards allaying my worst nightmares.

As it stands now, those who run the site have no control over what’s posted, and by whom. I don’t want to delve into the possibilities here and risk giving anyone any ideas. Owners cannot police their own territories. I know things will improve. I know the roadmap has not been made public, but this interim phase can be dangerous. I’m glad to see that there’s been an emphasis on legal lately. Still, just declaring some activity as “against the terms of service” does not absolve Stacker News of liability. I hope this post is overly paranoid. I hope Darth mocks me for being fearful of the guvs. I just don’t want to wake up one morning and find that the site has been seized.

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2223 sats \ 42 replies \ @k00b 12 Dec 2023

This is why we are exclusively focused on legal right now. We see potential in SN and want to make sure we aren't doing anything illegal by anyone's standard.

Owners cannot police their own territories.

As the proud owner of three territories, what kind of policing tools would you like to have?

757 sats \ 40 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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312 sats \ 36 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

sir we are using social cowboy credits here

517 sats \ 21 replies \ @k00b 12 Dec 2023

If we have to go an in game currency route (which is the last resort) to be compliant, I'd prefer either doubloon or scrip.

427 sats \ 19 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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3115 sats \ 7 replies \ @k00b 12 Dec 2023

This site is my entire life. I literally have nothing better to do or anything I'd rather do.

979 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

I remember your first announcement, was kind of shy announcement to invite people to try this crazy thing...

I said, what the heck is this, but hey is using sats! I cannot ignore this shit. Then I saw you put a lot of work on it.

I even had a talk with fiatjaf about it and he laugh about telling me: "oh yeah you are interesting in that thing SN, not sure if he gonna make it" (or something like that, you know how is fiatjaf...denying everything)

1804 sats \ 4 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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485 sats \ 0 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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90 sats \ 10 replies \ @siggy47 OP 13 Dec 2023

Is there any way accounts use their own third party (phoenix, blixt)LN wallets?

486 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 13 Dec 2023

I think ShockWallet could be a solution https://www.nobsbitcoin.com/shockwallet-lightning-pub-alpha/ but is still in early beta. Looks promising.

498 sats \ 8 replies \ @k00b 13 Dec 2023

Short answer: yes, third parties, whether compliant custodians or non-custodial wallets, are how we can still use real money on SN compliantly

Extension of answer: all third party options come with tradeoffs. e.g.

Most compliant custodians that allow us to "connect" to them all have customers they can't serve even in the US, e.g. NY residents.
mobile non-custodial wallets, even ones trying to serve SN-like use cases, can't send payments instantly and are even more difficult to receive payments to

Basically, no third party is a 100% solution to what we need if we want everyone to be able to use SN easily and cheaply. Still, we are excited to become customers of these third parties because it will help these solutions get better.

We are pretty far along on our thinking on this. We just need to consult with a few more groups first before cementing our plans. I'll share those not-yet-cemented plans on SN for feedback in a week or two.

504 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 13 Dec 2023

Great information. I looked into the "money transmitter" possibility, and I'm less concerned, at least as between SN and individual stackers. I'm sure you guys have lawyers looking into everything, and especially regarding the particulars of how fiat is converted to bitcoin internally.

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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 13 Dec 2023

Sorry but I have to remember you again: I've told you so many times... implement the fucking LNDHUB and that's it!

How many times I have to be right until people take in consideration my advice?

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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @nemo 13 Dec 2023

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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

For me is simple.... But yeah many people cannot see clearly like me.

In order to claim ANY jurisdiction or authority over bitcoin, you must provide any proof that you are the owner or creator of those bitcoin.

They cannot do that and they are just playing a game with people's mind.

Recently I posted a comment about this aspect. I suggest to all people to pay attention to it. #332759

0 sats \ 13 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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10 sats \ 12 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

They both played the obedient shitizen card. Ross also was a patsy, they framed him.

Let them come to me... I know how to deal with this shit. That is a difference between a sovereign individual and a citizen...

When you are in this fucked up position, you are the one having them by the balls...

but yeah... if you play by the lawyers game... you always lose IT'S ALL A FUCKING THEATER, A GAME. But people are so afraid even to see the fucking truth.

1 sat \ 11 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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78 sats \ 10 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

sorry but I do not speak from my ass, just for talking. I was in several times in that court room and I OWNED THEM, I got them by their own balls. This is serious stuff that very few here pay attention. I am tired to repeat myself: there are ONLY COROPORATIONS. CORPORATIONS run only by the contracts, not by laws... Laws are for clueless slaves. STUDY UCC.

0 sats \ 9 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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77 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 12 Dec 2023

Exactly right. I should have included that in the post

319 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

I wonder when a crazy lawyer goes into supreme court and challenge this stupidity of "money transmitter" license... that only exist in US.

Damn it guys, should I do that?

255 sats \ 0 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 12 Dec 2023

Honestly, I prefer your method of a basic live and let live approach. I'm not asking for the ability to censor. I like the idea of a more decentralized SN where no person or entity (namely you and me) can be held responsible for the actions of people we have no control over. I don't want to be a cop, and you don't either. That's really the best thing about nostr, but SN just functions so much better.

1073 sats \ 1 reply \ @Wumbo 12 Dec 2023

It’s only a matter of time before U.S. three letter agencies will be snooping around, and maybe visiting Austin, subpoenas in hand,

SN might want to put up a Warrant Canary - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

not bad idea!

812 sats \ 9 replies \ @birdeye21 12 Dec 2023

SN became even more interesting (if that's even possible) the moment territories released. Truly breaking new ground in social media. The big thing I think is how it's created an organic competitive market for the users to sort out. And the barrier to entry has never been lower to participate.

The obvious chaos that the freedom of territories creates will naturally filter out and refine over time. We'll be left with some awesome interesting subs to talk about, and the discussion should naturally broaden in a way that feels conducive to the greater goal of SN (probably not nsfw titty pics..)

Opens the gates for more users and more touchpoints for them. All around very exciting :) But yes scary lol.

Not sure how it all legally works out. But consider the day the gov comes knocking very bullish for SN -- much like Bitcoin

42 sats \ 8 replies \ @siggy47 OP 12 Dec 2023

You have a nice, soothing optimistic take on things, birdeye. It couldn't have come at a better time. I was just spiraling down an ugly "what if?" filled abyss.

376 sats \ 7 replies \ @birdeye21 12 Dec 2023

The rain and the sunshine, both are necessary! Can save me from the naivete i may naturally lean towards. Seeing Bitcoin win though has me bullish on truth in general winning out in the end.

439 sats \ 6 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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291 sats \ 5 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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98 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 OP 12 Dec 2023

Someone had to say it

554 sats \ 0 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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255 sats \ 2 replies \ @birdeye21 12 Dec 2023

lmao true

ross was doin something right!

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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738 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

Your post is very well to be concerning. I will not mock you to be fearful of the govs. That's good, because you you are in alert. Being in alert doesn't mean your are a statist or "order follower". It means you know WHO is the danger and you try to fight it.

I had some kind of the same reaction like you. And that's why I didn't post too much anymore, especially on other territories. Not because I should be afraid. You know me now that I don't give a shit about any gov agency in the world. I was worried like you said... next morning this wonderful hangout site is gone.

You are right, SN could find ways to host this place in a more distributed ways, maybe IPFS, I don't know if that is possible.

But yes, hosting it on a different jurisdiction could solve temporary. The sad thing is that the whole internet domain system still depend on a handful of people in US, by ICAAN.

So even if I would say: host SN on my own Darth servers (yes, I have privater servers for my private stuff) and use my "jurisdiction"... that is not enough. There's still many ways to shut down a website.

In the end, yes, I agree with you.

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @birdeye21 13 Dec 2023

i want your mountains darth.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 13 Dec 2023

you already watch them from the skies...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 13 Dec 2023

ugh i need better opsec

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 12 Dec 2023

Thanks for weighing in. A very long time ago I was asking questions about domains, and you mentioned a few that were "no kyc." Like you said, though, there is still the ICAAN problem. I don't remember the details, but wasn't there mention at some time about hosting a site using bitcoin? Maybe this was just some inscription bullshit, or was it LN? Does this ring a bell, or did I dream it!

503 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

You can buy absolutely anything you want with bitcoin. That's not the problem. The problem is that ANY domain will end up in the end to be "filtered" by ICAAN. They are literally 8 - 9 dudes that are under the US jurisdiction, and they keep the keys to the whole internet.

People thinking that internet is decentralized and free are clueless... They just allow us to play around, but anytime can shut down a domain.

Yes, you can run a website without a domain, just an IP, or on several IPs, but that's not the "nice way". And even then they can go for the ISP that is managing that IP and close it down.

They have us BY THE BALLS...

WE NEED A TRULY DECENTRALIZED INTERNET, but right now is almost impossible to have it at global scale. Maybe in some local regions...

And soon they will implement the fucking digital ID, they will have you by the balls again, you cannot contract ANY internet service without gov approval.

WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE! Stop obeying the fucking govs! Obedience goes to tyranny... not laws!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fm 13 Dec 2023

Word

427 sats \ 5 replies \ @grayruby 12 Dec 2023

This is why I am apprehensive about having betting on the sports sub. Even if it's peer to peer. I would never want to put the SN team in a position where they could get into legal hot water. I don't think the FBI is breaking down the doors because of a football pool but I think we need to be mindful we don't cross any lines as things grow.

And no I am not being a statist cuck. I am just trying to be conscientious and respectful of the SN team. I know we all hate big bad google and all recognize their mantra "do no harm" was just an empty platitude but as territory founders we should aim to promote a culture of "do no harm" to the broader SN site in our territories.

This message will self destruct in....

282 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

This message will self destruct in....

The solution is not to be scared shit... The solution is to CONFRONT evertything. You build a house openly not by hiding...

255 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 12 Dec 2023

That was a joke I am not actually self destructing the message sir

333 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

good. At least you learn something. FUCK'EM'ALL

229 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 12 Dec 2023

You build a house openly not by hiding...

Absolutely right. I really was reluctant about posting about this at all, hoping I wasn't doing more harm than good.

BTW, thanks but unnecessary :)

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 12 Dec 2023

I have thought about your situation more than you might imagine. Very wise red line with pools. The government mafia will protect their turf.

364 sats \ 0 replies \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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364 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 12 Dec 2023

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255 sats \ 7 replies \ @Bitman 12 Dec 2023

I think I know what you're saying.

Since the territories, the possibility of Agent Provocateurs has been a concern for me.

(I'd set this reply to auto delete if I knew how...)

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

Deleting posts is not the solution... I really hope more FBI agents will read my posts and learn something FFS

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bitman 12 Dec 2023

Yes, I appreciate the head spin that this one suggests.

But, for me, APs on SN are still a worry.

Care to allay my fears?

1 sat \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

Just think for your ancestors fighting their life for a piece of fucking land... from invasions.

Now you are just chicken shit scared for a fucking meme you posted on SN, that a fucking imaginary government will come to you and say you violate some kind of imaginary law on an imaginary piece of paper.

FOR FUCK SAKE MAN! BE A FUCKING MAN AND STAND YOUR GROUND!

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bitman 12 Dec 2023

The meme I find funny monsieur. Read head spin as paradigm shift.

I've seen what I can only assume to be APs in real life situations.

My wish to auto delete is with the same vibe as Siggy's 'don't want to give anyone any ideas' comment.

Refrain from seeing red so quickly amid your adopted character and you might see more nuance.

1569 sats \ 1 reply \ @nemo 12 Dec 2023

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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 12 Dec 2023

Ah, good one Nemo.

I'm not one who would be easy to fly off the handle about things.

Others, yes.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 13 Dec 2023

(I'd set this reply to auto delete if I knew how...)

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Dec 2023

I want to add some simple things to this:

Not the government or laws are to be afraid... BUT THE FUCKING COROPORATIONS!

EVERYTHING IN THIS FUCKING WORLD IS BASED ON CONTRACTS.

Simply go for the strict contracts with service providers. With strict rules for insurances... to get them by the balls. Govs are doing whet CORPORATIONS say!