I. Don't. Know.

I want many things, but one thing's for sure: I don't wanna waste it.
Scenario: your Bitcoin is worth €50k, €100k or even €200k, what are you even gonna do with that in today's day-and-age, let alone a few years from now?
A fancy vacation around the world, or a simple- but very much longer vacation around the world by backpacking?
What about work and family? How would I fit the above into this?!
Or maybe a down payment for a house (If I can even get one), leading me onto a path of slaving away the better part of my life to pay-off a fancy heap of bricks?

What. Can. One. Do?! What. Should. One. Do?!

Yeah there'll be some shenanigans that'll argue "I won't sell my Bitcoin ever, like never-never!", and that's fine, but the thing is: I wanna take advantage of the risk I took and the reward I've received for it at one point in time, you can let it sit for the next three decades if you want to, but that's not me.
What should money be used for, especially if you don't wanna work bullshit jobs for the rest of your life?
this territory is moderated
I wish this question got explored more; I think the fact that it doesn't suggests bad things. If you have money -- which is what btc is -- and you haven't thought about the uses to which money ought to be put to further your own flourishing, then there's something else going on that's probably not going to end well for you. But whatever. Go ahead and clutch the paper where you scribbled your unspent QR seed phrase in your bony hands as you go the grave. Hopefully it will be some comfort.
For people with a more expansive idea about money, here's an exercise that's relevant but that's surprisingly difficult: imagine your life 5 years from now if things go really well. Not ludicrously, sci-fi levels of well, but if every day you feel 80% satisfied that you've executed on the things you feel like you should be doing, whatever that is.
Where are you, after doing that for five years? The answer to that probably has bearing on where you can -- or should, one day -- allocate your money, whether it's btc or fiat. If that's who you want to be and where you want to be, money can help realize those aims. But in my experience, and in working w/ others, it's remarkably difficult to answer this question in concrete detail. Try it and see.
(A fuller version of this exercise can be had w/ JBP's self-authoring program, but the idea is well-supported in the literature beyond JBP. If you don't want to read a hundred papers or get a PhD, this is probably among the best $15 you could spend.)
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358 sats \ 1 reply \ @Fabs OP 21 Feb
That's the real culprit, ain't it; not knowing what you want in / out of life, is what makes you choose poor decisions in the first place.
If I were to invest said money into myself - whatever that means in the first place -, what would that look like?
Starting a study at 30? Take the money and go for an epic exercise-regime complete with a fancy personal trainer, home-gym and dietician?
It's all so overwhelming...
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It can be overwhelming. But at least you know where the work needs to be directed! And that's a lot.
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Thanks for this reminder of the self-authoring program. Looked at it a few years ago and just kinda dropped off my radar.
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Actually, five years is how long I've been neglecting to do that self-authoring program...
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383 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 21 Feb
I thought I had properly self-inspected before doing his self-authoring, but I hadn't. My prompts were never carefully constructed nor did I push myself to completely answer to the same degree.
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878 sats \ 0 replies \ @C_Otto 21 Feb
I donate a lot. My lifestyle is good enough, and I can easily afford any vacation I want to have. I don't feel the need to spend more, and having more spendable money doesn't change this fact.
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I can’t write a lot because I’m on my phone… but if you are patient, you keep your BTC, take out a loan, buy a revenue generating business, use biz to pay back the loan, quit your fiat job, live off the revenue, build things with your family.
The problem is you have never been rich and don’t understand how rich people manage their assets.
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Solid.
When do we expect banks to accept BTC as collateral for loans?
The only way I'd use my BTC as collateral would be through an established institution, like a big bank.
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you did not learn anything. bitcoin was created to get rid of banks. banks are becoming obsolete, they can now be replaced by a script. "established institutions" are the ones that steal the most
Maybe within a decade? Fidelity could be first, they’ve been at the forefront of BTC, as a legacy finance corp.
Gotta watch the amounts, you absolutely do not want to get called
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Awesome, I do hope somewhere the next year-ish or so, maybe two... 😋
I'd only take a loan somewhere during a Bear market anyway.
852 sats \ 2 replies \ @kytt 21 Feb
I will build something or start a business that provides a useful good/service to people and accept Bitcoin for the good/service I provide.
Off the top of my head: cattle farming and beekeeping. I've also considered learning to run a Fedimint.
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Hmm, what's in it for someone running a Fedimint? Haven't looked into it at all until now...
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I'm not sure of what all is required; I haven't had time to look much into that part yet, but the whole concept, to me, is brilliant.
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It's pretty straightforward to me.
I would use a large endowment to provide for my family after I quit my fiat job to focus on freelance writing and research.
Tying into @elvis's comment, that's the vision I'm working toward for my future anyway and more purchasing power just makes it easier.
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Honestly, I don't know, I am like a dog chasing a car really, I am just stacking because I DON"T have a better idea of what to do with my money, it will go into that abyss until some shinning or extremely tempting offer to deploy that capital comes along.
Maybe I do crack and do some consoooming, maybe its helping out someone, maybe its growing my business, maybe its saving my ass in an economic down turn.
I don't know geez batman, for now I am a one trick stacking pony
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been doing too: using BTC as my fiat-dump 🤣
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237 sats \ 6 replies \ @go 21 Feb
My newest thought...
If BTC is going to increase in purchasing power by and average of 2x every year, then it's fully reasonable to withdraw at least 1% (and even up to 5% if you're in need) every year. 1% Should have negligible effect on your family's inheritance no matter the size of your stash.
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Hmm hm hm hmmm... Kinda like FIRE with Bitcoin?
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @go 21 Feb
Is that an acronym?
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FIRE = Financial Independence Retire Early
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Nah, it's a strategy to retire early off of the yields of an all-world ETF portfolio as far as I know... Not my kinda jazz.
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FIRE = Financial Independence Retire Early As far as I understand it, it's a goal, a concept. The way I see it, you can do it however you choose. It seems some people do it via ETFs and/or real estate flipping, property management, side hustles etc... Some people are probably doing it with bitcoin too but maybe they don't call it FIRE.
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Hm, fair.
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I'll try to keep it short.
Around the time I was 16, I set myself some goals I wanted to achieve before I turned 30. I did this because I had some existential dread and life in general sucked really hard for reasons I won't go into here. I thought to myself:
When I am not able to achieve these things before I am 30, I really suck and the rest of my life will probably also suck. So I should start now to make my life suck less so maybe, when I am 30, life does indeed suck less.
At some point, I discovered bitcoin and I had a feeling that this might be it:
Is this it? Is this what I was looking for the whole time? Some way to change my life? To make the world change to something better? To a world that sucks less?
I then set myself some more specific goals related to bitcoin like not selling for 5 years at least. Pretty basic stuff you could say so I'll also spare you the details here. But I knew the hard part was to actually follow through with the plans. So I literally used to talk to myself in the mirror and say stuff like "Bitcoin is the future. Bitcoin will prevail.", lol.
But it worked. I took a leap of faith with bitcoin, my stack growing the more I learned about it and it changed my life pretty fast in ways I would say are mostly positive. I kind of manipulated myself you could say.
So now I still remember the goals and plans how to achieve them from years back. I can feel the urge to change them thanks to the price going higher and thus the opportunity to achieve my goals getting closer. I wonder if I should update my goals in accordance with the knowledge and conviction in bitcoin I gained during these years. But I also know it's greed. I don't want to sell a chunk of my stack when the price might even go way higher in a "not so short time". But I also know that this is essentially trying to time the market which I thought was something I wouldn't do anymore.
So even though I was crazy enough to talk to myself in a mirror, I don't really know what I will do when my goals are finally within reach at basically the press of a button. Will I skip on the opportunity and regret it later, thinking there will come a better time?
I don't know but I know that the chunk that I am willing to sell in percentage points is indeed getting smaller and smaller. It's as if my future me gets more and more important to me so I want to keep all doors open for him. But I also know that we're all constantly running out of time and at some point there might be no future me of me anymore.
So it's a very good question. I realized I wrote all of this and didn't even answer your question yet.
My answer is basically this: my goals are mostly based on "experience stuff". So I wouldn't say I have materialistic goals. My goals are more like "live in a foreign country for some time", "jump out of a plane with a parachute" and "get a pilot license".
I think life is not only about awareness but also about experiences and bitcoin is just a means to an end. Just to which end exactly is the question that everyone has to answer for their own life though.
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Yeah... It's a difficult nut to crack, for saving is a fine habit, but saving too long might very well bite you in the ass some time...
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Piloting your own plane (or someone else’s) is the ultimate freedom, and responsibility, just like Bitcoin. If you like freedom and responsibility, and flying interests you, definitely get your pilot certificate.
There is a lot to learn and you never stop learning. It helps to be humble, and stoicism helps too. Hubris and inability to keep your “monkey in the cage” (keep thinking while SHTF) is how pilots get killed. A few pilots are Bitcoiners.
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Will I skip on the opportunity and regret it later, thinking there will come a better time?
That's the side of the thing people miss out on, imo. They're so fixated on building their nut that they don't see the danger in waiting for some better time to spend it.
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This is an important question. I'd love to see this as a writing prompt for ~BooksAndArticles.
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@siggy47, you're welcome, hunny-bunny.
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40 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 22 Feb
I'm on it.
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🔧🥳
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There is a big problem with those who say "I won't sell my Bitcoin ever, like never-never!". They forgot one thing.. They will die, just like everything else. You do not have infinite time on this planet in this body. So spend your time and money wisely. I don't see the point to have a lot of money but do not spend any of it for anything. If you do so then you are trapped in a mental sickness. I studying bitcoin since 2017 and so many things I done in crypto space since then. After all I deserve to live the life which I want. That's why I bought my brand new car now and I take the family to trips around the world. Because that's how I enjoy. It would be very stupid to do not live with the opportunity. Money is the tool, not to goal. The goal is freedom, to spend your time as you wish.
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149 sats \ 2 replies \ @odium 21 Feb
Actually: not a lot. BTC hitting 200k or 1m actually means the US dollar will have fallen to 500-100 sat/$. Such a devaluation will seriously threaten the US world domination power - and they will fight back. As in: You swap any serious amount into BTC, the Feds show up at your door the next minute and charge you with financial terrorism.
So: you stay low, and hodl on...
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$200k in a year probably…USD may be dogshit but every other currency is worse so, it doesn’t really threaten US hedgemony.
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Unlikely to happen imo.
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I noticed this post sort of late. I guess I have a different perspective from most people here because I'm in my 60s. I spent a good chunk of my life working hard for financial security, and to build a career doing something that I found meaningful. For me, that meant being a lawyer who defended people accused of committing crimes. I believed in stuff like the US constitution's Bill Of Rights. I got jaded by the system, by my clients, and by my country. Still, I feel as though I did some good and prevented some injustice. I did well financially and am fortunate to have what I need. I never got much joy out of spending lots of money on luxuries anyway. I discovered bitcoin at the end of my career. I have always been ambitious, so it's nice to keep score, but I know in my heart I won't spend much of it even if the price goes stupid high. I'll leave it to my family and give to charities that mean something to me. I started doing that before I discovered bitcoin. I enjoy the daily ups and downs. It's no small matter to find something that can provide material benefits for your loved ones while making the world a better place.
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149 sats \ 3 replies \ @co574 21 Feb
Money cannot buy you:
  1. Purpose
  2. Happiness
  3. Inner Peace
  4. Love
  5. Friendship
  6. Respect
  7. Time
Stay humble, ask the right questions, and stack sats!
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It can absolutely buy you time.
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160 sats \ 0 replies \ @co574 21 Feb
money is other people’s time ;)
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Time is fixed. All money can do is allow you to allocate time more freely.
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Give it to me and you'll find out! ;)
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @gmd 21 Feb
here are some sats
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Same to ya!
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Only if you let me obliterate your asshole for every $100 I'll give ya.
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I'm not into "alternative investments".
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I thought you'd like me to give you the money?
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Giving money and anal rape are not the same things, but many people have that confused so I guess I won't hold it against you.
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It's not rape when you're giving me consent. 🤫
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I didn't, and so it would be. Also, you would count yourself among the unalive.
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Sheesh, you're taking it a bit too serious, man.
I think the reason people struggle with this question is due to a flawed view of the world. People delude themselves into thinking that traveling around the world will come with a sense of satisfaction and their life will have meaning or it won't be wasted. Viewing the human experience this way will only lead to continuous yearning for more. Sure, one might feel satisfied in the act of doing the thing, but once the experience is over the same thought process starts over.
The only way something (money, time) won't be wasted is if it helps other people. Work and family are a part of this. Most people need to work to earn money so they can help their family survive/thrive. That is how they help people. If you make enough money to not need to work in this way, use it in a way that will help other people. That doesn't mean don't travel, it means travel with a purpose.
As I sit here typing thinking back on my life, the times I am absolutely most certain were not a waste are times I was helping others. Tutoring kids from neighborhoods with terrible schools, facilitating new experiences for my nieces and nephews, taking my brother to a concert he would otherwise not have been able to go to, and etc.
With everything else you will wonder whether it was worth it. Was there something else that could have filled the time more optimally?
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Hm, good point, solid comment.
It's not what one can do for himself, but what one can do for others, which gives value to time and energy, am I getting your message?
Interesting, I'll have to give it some thought.
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This is why it makes sense to have savings and keep building them up, in a nutshell.
It's not really about what you can buy with them. It's about the position of strength.
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Buy a shit load of land with some of my BTC. Land with a waterfall on it, plant some veggies, hunt, fish and live off-grid. Set my miners do their job and secure F-off money :-) also, get 2 or 3 Elon satellites and combine the bandwidth and then shitposting all day on SN and nostr ... lol Ya, that's about it...
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I'd add some shrooms to that, though.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @nicosey 21 Feb
Be free from the system...
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Yeah that's a nice dream and all (mine too), but how are you going to achieve this?
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21 sats \ 3 replies \ @OT 21 Feb
Most will go to my kids and then their kids (hopefully).
I do have some vanity ideas to spend it on if it really takes off. But that will likely be quite a few years away.
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Go on, tell us.
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351 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 21 Feb
Well... I guess the main one is just to hire some of the best musicians on the planet to play music I have written (more like will write!). They aren't cheap!
Its kinda like burning money as only a small portion will ever come back to you, but..... Its nice to dream about this kinda stuff sometimes.
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I think it'd be a mighty-fine sight to behold: hearing a world-class orchestra play your song to the crowds.
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Simple pay off all my debts.
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Wanna tell how you came to these debts?
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Homes Solar panels Small credit card debt And one historically bad business loan
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Ai... Yeah loans can bite you in the ass.
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Big facts
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I won’t be using it for much besides, buying things cut off from fiat rails and tipping V4V, below $10M.
the opportunity cost below that price is so astronomical. After $10M or so the price is going to mean less and less, but my guess is that’s about $1M in today’s dollars, maybe 10-20 years away.
I will start by not working as much. No overtime, work as little as possible, just for the social time, fun, and challenge. The cutoff for me is 0.5 BTC/yr salary. Once I’m earning that little, there is no point wasting extra time there that I could be doing other things I enjoy.
Then I would buy a nice piece of property to enjoy, and build a nice house. Do some traveling.
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First thing I'm going to do with the money is buy time. I will quit my part time job and start focusing on my passions. With money I will have the stress free space to also develop them into something that generate income.
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Follow your heart. When you silence all the other voices, you can begin true listening.
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You could fund Bitcoin startups doing something revolutionary.
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Cocaine and hookers ❄️😚
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What's your type?
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The good one
Use the money to Invest in bitcoin businesses. Lots of work to be done. A well set up business will let you stack those sats while you sleep.
A few well set up businesses also allows you to build a life that you will never have to "retire" from.
Don't forget to spend/ distribute those sats too. It's money. I'm happy to spend any bitcoin on one condition that those coins never touch a custodial exchange.
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Are you talking as in: a business that's directly providing Bitcoin-related products and services, or a generic business which accepts and integrates Bitcoin payment solutions?
As for the former: what kind of businesses are needed or would you like to see?
I think we have enough hardware wallet manufacturers.
Our plan is to exchange some SATs for fiat and buy a small house, we are doing some research...it's a slow process. The paperwork will take about 6 months and the house needs a lot of works..two years to rebuild is what we have been told.
The problem is that we would like to rent a temporary house near the property we'd like to buy to be close and supervising and working on the rebuild. And as our biggest asset is BTC we can not proof that we have funds and renting is becoming a huge challenge...
Rich in asset, poor in fiat is not an easy way to live if you want to do normal things like renting a tiny apartment...
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Sounds like a plan, I'd simply rent a caravan or something like that for the time being, or place one of those living-units on the property... Worst-case I'd go with a solid tent and the likes...
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Yes, a caravan is our plan B.
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We only live once and can’t money to the grave. Preserve a legacy of you have a family or causes you believe in, but LIVE. Do what fulfills you.
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It’s straightforward for me: send my two kids off to college without them incurring any debt.
This is why Sensei hustles here for sats xP
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That's a mighty-fine investment!
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Imagine knowing that your savings will not evaporate and that you will have enough savings to cover your basic expenses for decades or many many years into the future. This security will completely alter your ambition. You will have the luxury of time. A very precious gift. You may no longer desire only to increase your wealth, but rather focus your time and energy on something that takes a great deal of time. To build something that creates a legacy. To become a master craftsman or artist or writer. If we see low time preference spreading throughout society, we will see a great transition to higher quality products, much less waste and profligate consumerism. If the value of your money is greater in the future then you will be very careful what you spend your money on and as a corollary to Gresham's Law, you will only purchase items that will be useful today and continue to be useful for decades. We will see more and more products "guaranteed for life" crafted so well and with so much pride that they retain their value for generations.
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Solid. I've been thinking about simply covering my basic needs and nothing more, which would allow me a mighty-fine amount of spare time... Hm.
I'd still need to find something - or someone, for that matter - to spend said time on.
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I understand your feelings.
I can understand your concerns. Getting a large sum of money unexpectedly can raise many questions about how to use it wisely and make the most of it.
Set goals in life.
Before making any decisions, I recommend that you take some time to set goals for your life. What do you want in life? What are your priorities? What do you want to do? What do you want to have?
Once you have clear goals, you will be able to make easier decisions about how to spend this money.
Consider your options carefully.
The options you have listed all have their own advantages and disadvantages.
Traveling the world in luxury allows you to experience new things and see the world, but it is also expensive. Traveling the world on a budget allows you to save money, but it may not be as comfortable as the luxury option. Using the money as a down payment for a house allows you to own your own home, but you will have to make mortgage payments for a long time. Not selling your Bitcoin gives you the opportunity to make more profits in the future, but it is also a high-risk investment. Diversify your risk.
I recommend that you diversify your risk by not putting all of your money into one investment.
You can divide some of the money into different assets such as stocks, real estate, gold, etc.
Consult an expert.
If you are still unsure, I recommend that you consult a financial expert for advice on managing your money.
Live a happy life.
Finally, I would like to remind you that money is just a tool to live your life. The most important thing is to live a happy life.
Quote:
"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy the things that make us happy." - Warren Buffett
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Hm, you know: I've been trying to find things that I could diversify in with the same "good feeling" that I have with Bitcoin, but I fail to find anything.
Gold? I've got the better candidate already.
Silver? Brass, Copper and Lead? Fine for a SHTF-storage, but as an investment?..
ETF's? Why? For a chance of gaining a few % after inflation? In a good year? Nah..
The only thing that would come somewhat-close, are properties, something that's far out of my reach for now.
See, I think of "diversifying" as a way to pick multiple winners, but also multiple losers... What's the point? Spreading risk, or maiming your portfolio for a false sense of security?
Risk is always there, I've chosen to embrace it.
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I understand your perspective on diversification and your preference for higher-risk, high-reward investments. While your approach has certainly brought you significant gains with Bitcoin, it's important to acknowledge that it also carries inherent risks.
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I do, and I love it.
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Good luck ^^
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Let's do a thought experiment. How much money do you need to live a great life?
For arguments sake and to make the math easier, let's say it's $100,000 per year for the rest of your life. Let's also say you're 50 years old and you think you're going to live another 50 years.
By that logic, if you had $5 million dollars you could live out the rest of your days pretty comfortably and never work again. Of course, in reality it doesn't quite work that way because of monetary debasement. With rising cost of living your $5 million might only last 25 years (Just guessing, someone else can do the math on this one). But that's not really my point. I'm just trying to frame how much money you actually need.
How do the rich actually do it? I can assure you they don't keep millions of dollars in cash sitting around in their bank account. What they actually do is hold assets that store value over time and borrow against them until the day they die.
So let's play out that scenario again, only this time you're the owner of valuable assets. On paper, your assets are worth $5 million. You do not have any cash but the bank is happy to give you a small "cost of living" loan for $100,000. They don't even really question it because it's such a tiny loan compared to the value of your assets. The monthly repayment is $600.
That means, you need to repay just $7,200 per year to service the loan. You can even use the borrowed money to make the repayments. The rest of the money can be spent on living your life. The best part is, you never had to sell anything. No capital gains taxes. Your assets are still your assets.
At some point you run out of cash. You need to refinance your loan so this time you borrow $200,000 to pay back the original debt and have some money for cost of living. Your repayments go up to $14,600 per year. But again, you never had to sell anything. No capital gains taxes. Your assets are still your assets.
Okay, at this point you're probably thinking this feels like a scam. It's an unsustainable never ending debt cycle. And that's true to a degree. But remember your assets are also becoming more valuable (measured in dollars) over time. At any point you can sell some of your assets and pay back the debt in full.
You might be surprised how long you can keep this going. Can you keep it going until the day you die? Maybe. If you manage to do that your assets pass down to your children after paying the debt. Your children receive those assets tax free. No capital gains taxes are ever paid.
Remember, this is just a thought experiment. In reality you're probably not going to live entirely off the borrowed money. You'll probably find a way to have an income from a business or job to make the loan repayments easier.
I just wanted to point out that there are other ways to think about money. You can do some very interesting things if you hold valuable assets.
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131 sats \ 2 replies \ @freetx 22 Feb
Another way (a better way) to accomplish what you've written is to utilize a whole-life insurance policy.
Take your $5M and buy a whole-life policy that pays out $10M at your death. Borrow against the policy....you are taking a loan from your future payout. Meaning if you have borrowed $6M by the time you die the payout is $4M.
Since its a loan, there are no taxes.
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Nice 😂
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You guys never fail to surprise.. 🤣
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I wouldn't want to finance my life like that, but I do think that holding (and hoarding, for that sake) onto hard assets is the first and foremost task one should pursue, before one could even think of how someone's going to spend the money, for you can be "rich" one year, but "poor-er" a decade later due to monetary debasement.
All you really need is enough of a "hard asset" to get the ball rolling, take out loans against it and use that fiat to increase one's hard assets, with which one repays the loan + fees just to do it all over again.
Thanks.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 21 Feb
Make stuff that helps people comfortably. Help other people make stuff that helps people comfortably.
I don't really want much materially in the sense that it'll provide a lot of pleasure. I mostly want to avoid material discomfort.
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I'm not really getting what you're after, is it: You want to hand people the "tools" that'll help them live life more comfortable? If so, what do you envision these tools to be?
I've been trying to downsize in material possessions, and trying to keep it on the low in general, for it can be suffocating to have everything you "need" and more, value gets lost.
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Just live, use it to live without worries and support those who deserve it.
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I'll need you to add some more details to that...
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My advice is don't spend on superfluous things, and buy things you need, want really bad and that you will use, because your will probably not getting that bitcoin back. So spend on things that have a good impact in your life, for me I could spend some in a down-payment to buy a house and not much more. I would not spend on travels, vacations or cars. Even though i think it's ok to indulge yourself a little as long as is not a big part of your stack. In my mind I have a stack that I will never sell at least until I am retired. And another part that i am ok selling if it becomes a nice value and if there is something I need to buy.
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I don't have a job now and invested everything in Bitcoin over the past few years. Now even for my smallest of needs, I am dependent on Bitcoin. I don't lie, I sell Bitcoin once or twice a month but only to buy back at lower prices. Also I have developed a strategy to earn on my Bitcoin holdings... Which I am happy to do forever. I know it's a bit risky. However I won't mind going back to job if I lose my Bitcoin holdings. But I won't lose all at once as I have put them in various baskets in smaller amounts. I am earning in two ways. One in interest and the other in profits by selling at higher prices. The strategy is working for me and I will keep it on with it .... So what I am doing with my money is living my life and enjoying it.
I found this question tricky, im not sure but if i have lots of money waste no time start bussiness, make it double. Invest to something that youll get in the future, travel you want anywhere.