Views on religion \ stacker news ~culture

3098 sats \ 55 comments \ @nout 22 Apr culture

So twitter asked me "[if you] don’t believe in God, why?". And oh well, it may be the right time to ruffle some feathers and I think the SN community may be able to handle it.

Please do NOT read this thread if you may get triggered by opinions or views about religion that you disagree with. Below I share my personal views that are very specific and big majority of you will disagree with them.

I come from a very atheist country where no one I know is religious. It just doesn't come up as a topic. I mean, we learn about all religions at school, we had to read portions of the Quran, Bible, Greek mythology, Tripitaka, Bhagavad Gita, etc and compare the stories in exams...

Greek are the most entertaining and human-like, Buddhism is the most chill (but too much text). Abrahamic religions are too self-centered and argue about the smallest things. But overall the stories are very similar, with some technical differences.

Almost all religions have some form of 10 step plan to be better, while bad things happen if you don't. All have stories where the hero did good and was rewarded and other stories where the hero also did good and was not rewarded. This then shows you that life can suck and be random no matter how hard you try - but you should try your hardest anyway. I think that's a good lesson.

At the same time I believe that

the various holy books are distillation of humanity and morality, so there is a lot to learn from
the characters in the books are based on real folks, but sometimes mashed up
religion can play community building role (e.g. Sunday church)
good priest can replace therapists/psychologists
meditation/praying physically changes your brain, reduces stress, etc
for many people believing in God can help them grow, get them off the street, etc
religion doesn't play well with communism (and this will cause some stress to folks in the US soon...)
before-covid Jordan Peterson was good, after-covid Jordan Peterson lost himself in symbols

I more enjoy the smaller/pagan religions that focus on being thankful, appreciating Earth, appreciating nature, animals and other people. For example, I spent some time with Quechua and Aymara folks and they have Pachamama as the goddess that represents Earth and it was very inspiring to see the deep relationship they have with her.

Last note - in some countries the kids get Christmas presents not from Santa Claus, but from "baby Jesus". So then at some point you have to tell the kids that baby Jesus doesn't exist and it was the parents bringing the gifts the whole time.

Think about that.

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71 sats \ 10 replies \ @Lux 22 Apr freebie

those "sacred" books are laws written in story mode with allegories, metaphors... religion is enslavement thanks to distortion of those stories and the very thing those stories are supposed to protect (liberate) you from. religion comes from re ligare wich means to tie up again, or to bond again, as in make slave again

110 sats \ 0 replies \ @realtrader 22 Apr

I also think like you when I hear the word 'religion'

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @Bell_curve 23 Apr

Religion is the reason why Serb and Croat slaughtered each other

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @kenn_b 23 Apr

religion is just the pretense, economics is behind it

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 23 Apr

What was the economic dispute?

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @kenn_b 24 Apr

territory (you have to go many years back), remember people fight over religion without even knowing why they are fighting in the first place. They just think they hate each other.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 24 Apr

1914?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Lux 23 Apr

Please ignore me. I muted you and somehow your brainfarts still smell

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 23 Apr

Your head is inside your ass. That’s what the smell is

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 23 Apr freebie

Please enlighten me about the Serb Croat conflict

I know you love to hear yourself talk

Are you going to slaughter me with swords ⚔️ and sabers?

220 sats \ 2 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 22 Apr

https://imgprxy.stacker.news/KTodsQtac44bhLakKzGReG1j64FV3I6Znmk-CwB3kaw/rs:fit:1920:1080/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWdwcnh5LnN0YWNrZXIubmV3cy9mU0hEeXk1bEFwRHBldGx4VW5IVHYtTEl1R0ZRbi1iSy03MExIbTBNanRjL3JzOmZpdDoxOTIwOjEwODAvYUhSMGNITTZMeTl0TG5OMFlXTnJaWEl1Ym1WM2N5OHlOakExTUE

52 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout OP 22 Apr

best jam ever!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 23 Apr

https://intellectualtakeout.org/2017/11/muslim-inbreeding-is-a-huge-problem-and-people-dont-want-to-talk-about-it/

Muslim inbreeding is prevalent

217 sats \ 2 replies \ @030a29f333 23 Apr

Grew up in very Christian household. Found bitcoin. Really took to "dont trust, verify." Realized religion relies on the exact opposite premise. Fucked off from my religion.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 23 Apr

Good point. Religion is about faith. Have faith. Faith obviates the need to verify.

I grew up catholic but no longer attend church. My mom forced me to go when I lacked property rights as a child

87 sats \ 0 replies \ @030a29f333 23 Apr

Trying to move out for this reason lmfao

97 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 22 Apr

I also grew up in a very secular environment. It wasn't atheist, exactly, but religion and spirituality weren't part of our life.

I describe myself as a "pro-religion atheist", because I see many of the same value in religion that you describe, but I don't believe any of the theologies.

139 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave 22 Apr

I also was not raised around any religion. I considered myself an atheist in my past life. I found my spirituality when I was called to sit with Ayahuasca. It is there I met pachamama and found my own connection to the divine. It is not religion per say but it is a faith in something bigger than us that connects us all. I am very grateful to feel this connection now. I believe that faith in something is important for humans. If we don't believe in something, we will believe anything. I like to learn from various teachings and think at their core, they are all pointing to the same higher truth. That which cannot be named. Great post. Thank you.

1077 sats \ 2 replies \ @crrdlx 23 Apr

Just wanted to point out a distinction...

Often we hear something like, "All religions seek to reach the mountaintop. It may be called nirvana, enlightenment, or heaven, or whatever. But, there are many paths to that mountaintop, with each religion merely following a different path up to the same peak." Your passage below seems to reflect that.

Almost all religions have some form of 10 step plan to be better, while bad things happen if you don't.

However, Christianity is different. Other religions rely on a person doing something to reach that peak...meditation, sacrifice, good works, etc, as you allude. With Christianity, Jesus came down from the mountaintop to carry us all up. Reaching the peak is a gift given to us independent of anything we've done or anything we do. Grace.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oraltosun 24 Apr

No religion has come to bring people to salvation. The purpose of the arrival of religions is as follows: They have come as good news to the few people who live in societies mired in evil. And, of course, for some of the other people to learn from. Only one's own effort can lead to salvation.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout OP 23 Apr freebie

Yes, that's a notable difference, but It seems that there are couple religions where the deity suffers to help humans (based on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_deity ) E.g. Prometheus suffers for his gift to humans...

77 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 23 Apr

You faith is strong and should be shared. God bless!

77 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsMate 23 Apr

I like going to church once in a while for the moral compass and to surround myself with other positive people...

Everyone has their own reason to go to church, but for me it is a place to be one with my thoughts in a relatively positive environment.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout OP 23 Apr

That makes sense and that's in my opinion the main value of church.

77 sats \ 0 replies \ @Nuttall 22 Apr

When we look at the words of men we have to investigate the meaning. This meaning is assumed many times. Eventually the investigation leads to connections. These connections show a similar model or a differing model.

This model is to practice. To practice the skillful action. To understand that all action has consequences. There will be men and women who will charismatically lead to practice that is delusional and then harmful. It is best to find the practice that leads to truth. Truth is about skillful action.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @NoStranger 22 Apr

I was born in a Christian family and ever since I can remember I've always felt something was "off" with their teaching.

Luckily for me, I kept for myself all the reasoning and self analysis I did, and now I live as a "stealth atheist" in my family, as they would be strongly shaken by the fact that I don't believe in anything.

What made me question religion in general is how people handled other religions from the one they followed:

"Anyone's religion should be respected and everyone should have the freedom to pray for their own God/s."

Those are wonderful words that teach to give anyone the right to hold their personal beliefs, yet that also states that every religion is "the correct one" which was quite confusing for my tiny brain at the time.

Then I also noticed how my family interpreted said teaching, people following other religions were looked at with pity, and older abandoned religions talked about as blasphemy or ignorance.

As I looked for an answer, the only things I could find were:

Philosophical quotes that could be said by any religion regardless of what God/s they represented
Some set of rules to follow to not be "evil"
A grand price at the end that I could only enjoy after I'm a lifeless corpse.

So here's my final and personal answer:

"There's nothing to believe apart from your own actions and morals. Follow them and you'll die without regrets."

After this realization my life has been much happier and more relaxed, no rules to follow or grand price to obtain apart from being able to appreciate life and nature, if I help someone I do so out of free will, not for fear of being judged.

Even if, in the end, I'm proven to be wrong, a higher being as a God will surely forgive a poor human for doubting them.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @voxmagdalenea 22 Apr

I grew up in a house that did not follow 'religion', but more liberal in views. It was a small town and there were several churches, but none in our circle followed anything. My mother did raise me spiritual and believed in supernatural things as well as conspiracies. I was an odd child, she had me tested for 'psychic' abilities by a hypnotherapist and I was told my accuracy frightened her so badly that she screamed at me that I was a child of the devil. I had many unexplained experiences throughout my life, and over the last 10 years have come to an understanding through study of spiritual things.

This world does require a sacrifice, blood. Death is the outcome.
There is a creator.
Out of all the religions only one sacrificed for the whole world. And overcame death, and has a new name no man knows.
This Messiah said we are to overcome, and we shall live. What to overcome?
Everyone is born into an archetype, some hold more than others.
If we are born into an archetype, and we overcome, we are then given new names because all of the entire world and everything in it has a name, and that name has a story. The only one who was able to break out of this man mind loop, paved a way.
Because this whole world will 'evolve' into a new world that breaks free of these archetypes ( all end in death). The old will pass away. Pretty simple understanding.

Because of this, you can easily start to map out a persons life, a town, a country, a business and be able to know its 'story'. It is very very accurate. We live in a world where everything means something.

18 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 22 Apr

I think similarly, religions have their strength in matters of habits, principles among other aspects that could be called positive. but for the most part I feel that all of that has been used to manipulate people, specifically the church and its aftermath. For me they are the biggest scam ever created, if there is any religion that speaks of the truth I am more inclined to other philosophies such as Shintoism, Taoism, or the aborigines who worship the land. If there is any absolute truth, surely they have it and not those who only offer you that you should worship them, serve them and with that perhaps you will find peace in the other world...

14 sats \ 0 replies \ @oraltosun 22 Apr

Religion to me: It is personal. Everyone's religion is their own. In this case, whatever rules a person prefers to live by is his religion. There can be as many religions as there are people in the world. However, there is only one truth. There cannot be two different truths for a situation. Example: *If God is not human, how can he have children? Truth: God is not human and has no children. In other words, Jesus cannot be a child of God.

The purpose of our living in the world should be to see the facts and live according to them. If we ignore the facts because it suits us or because we like something, we are doing evil. And the truth is often bitter. The great poet Omar Khayyam cried out to God in one of his poems and said, "I don't want to see the truth anymore." Omar Khayyam was a philosopher and could see the truth better than anyone else. You see this clearly in his poems. His fondness for wine is also to get rid of the bitter influence of the facts. Summary: Everyone gives their own test in this world. This is the only exam in which cheating does not help. Live with respect for the facts. This is the only true religion.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @realtrader 22 Apr

Reading your text, two questions came to mind. I already have the answer to them, but I would like to know your opinion on the following two questions:

Do you believe that God exists?

Don't you believe in religion?

Ps: I believe that God exists, but I don't believe in religion. Trying to summarize my opinion as simply as possible, I strongly believe that the only thing we know for sure is that the only person who knows the truth is the one who got here first...

It was God? Was it religion? Anyway, it doesn't matter if I believe that God arrived first...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout OP 22 Apr freebie

Do you believe that God exists?

Not particularly, no.

Don't you believe in religion?

What do you mean by "believe in"? Does religion exist? Yes. Is it useful for some people? Yes. Is it useful for me? No.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fabs 22 Apr

I don't believe in (a) God, for "religion", to me, is the coping system people found solace in during way, way shittier times.

I think that religion has been popular in foregone times, because it promised a wonderful existence in the afterlife, if you behaved well in your life(in accordance to the respective religion's ruleset).

Life sucked back then, and "religion" offered a way out.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to think that there is an inherent reason behind all this, some kind of trial: the good are rewarded, the bad are punished.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, whatever it may be, I think it'd be beyond our comprehension anyway.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @hongumart 22 Apr

I don’t believe that True God is anything that humans are able to conceptualize. So while I do believe in God, I don’t believe in your “god”.

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @drlh 23 Apr freebie

https://m.stacker.news/27781

Sincerely, religions may elevate emotionally, but diminish developmentally due to necessity of doublethink to save the faith from contradictions.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @1rationalman 28 Apr

Religions are like penises. It’s ok to have one. It’s ok to be proud of it. You can’t just whip it out anytime you like.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @doubleplusgood23 27 Apr

I was raised Christian but by 13 I was mostly atheist and my parents were fine with letting me skip out on most religious activities. I was pretty apolitical and irreligious for most of my teens and early adulthood.

I threw myself into leftist political organizing around the 2016 election (I had just graduated HS). I embedded myself in the local Democratic Socialists of America but after a few years I became very disillusioned with it. Members viewed it as college social club and would have the pettiest squabbles over identity politics. I recall the founders being driven out over grammar they used to refer to Black people. Eventually COVID “radicalized me to centrism” and I find my current politics pretty neutral at the moment.

That sideline to politics is to say, I’m familiar with faulty organizations and I can spot when people aren’t genuine and more interested in a social club.

After my employment changed in about 2022 I started attending church with my parents again and was baptized in 2023. My conversion was driven by reading the Bible, as one would expect, doing a lot of research online (The atheists I embraced in my teenage years would often argue in bad faith I found.) but also by engaging with the church. It was made of people from many different walks of life and different outlooks but they were all unified by a belief in Jesus Christ and a mission to serve their wider community.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kenn_b 23 Apr

Great post. I do not get bothered by religious people and their dilusion. It is your own business in what you believe. Where it becomes a problem is when any religious believe gets pushed on kids in schools and the autoamtic entitlement for the largest religion in a country to be pushed as the ultimate truth. This is something each faimly should deal with on its own. It is personal.

The good news is that religion is slowly but surely losing its grip on humanity.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Kontext 23 Apr

I've never been a "religious" person either, but was always somewhat interested in the "spiritual"... so a few years ago I happened to go a little deeper on that (in a large part, thanks to taking up yoga) and read up a bit on religions as well (although I didn't go super deep), and the conclusions I came to were:

All religions are stories
All religions seem to try to convey the same basic principles of the fundamental mechanics of how reality works
They are all somewhat distorted (meanings of words, symbolism, centralization are some of the main drivers of the distortions)
Ultimately, what is being called God (or Gods), I think, is essentially just energy

If you want to read my interpretation, I've had this draft publicly up on Medium for a while now: https://medium.com/@mckontext/unified-creation-energy-theory-ucet-8814041ed94c

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kingzing131 23 Apr

Morality in religion has a shakey foundation.

99% of them are "do this because God says it is good", which is such a weird proposition.

-Why would God say it is good make it good? -Why is God the sole being for objective morality? -And if God come down and do a 180, then the entire good/evil narrative get flipped around.

Some argue it is because God is the creator, sure, but that just make it the creator, not anything else.

Some argue it is because God is the most powerful being. That just means morality is governed and determined by strength. Perhaps there's an even stronger being above God and our "God" is unaware of its existence.

The biggest issue of it all is, most of them ask you to do "things" for the eternal ever lasting life. This is an extremely nihilistic pov(no, religion is not a weapon against nihilism). That is no different than communism promising the ever lasting utopia.

Who cares about the cost happening right now if the future is forever perfect? It makes people prone to accepting defeat, and slave away their current life, and a false life on top of it all.

Religion can be helpful to those who want a solid foundation that they aren't living a random, meaningless, chaotic world. Imo calling it a good thing is like saying using drug to de-stress is a good thing.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 23 Apr

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hamstr 23 Apr

crappy - its used for collective mindset. Make their members(often the young) to give up time or money in exchange to "spread of gospel of the lord"

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @JReeCoin 23 Apr

Religion is a human invention and based on beliefs (faith). To believe is to blindly deny the truth in defense of a helpless god(s).

If its by faith (probabilistic) that God(s) exists, or is omnipotential and omniscient, then the scores must be defined. If not, then its not worth frying my brains, energy, and time to believe in God(s).

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout OP 23 Apr

I resonate with your first sentence, but I find it futile to try making logical statements like "if this then that... QED", because that's sort of beside the point of religion (in my understanding) and you just end up in neverending argument.

Do you agree with my points that I made in the bullet point list in the original post?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @JReeCoin 23 Apr

I would have given a full rebuttal to some (not all) of your 8 points, but find points 2 & 4 rather interesting.

Characters in the said books are fictitious and no historical records can confirm their absolute existence.
Good priests can't make therapists and psychologists as they're inclined to spirituality, rather than empirical working mechanisms (physical, cchemical, and biological) of our minds and bodies.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Manikese 23 Apr

I recommend “God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything” by Christopher Hitchens. Then read Inner Engineering by Sadhguru. Then you will understand my perspective.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rtr 23 Apr

Religion is a very deep part of the human psyche. Everyone has one, even if you think you don't.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Malachi17 22 Apr

Short version: God is real. Does what He says. People should do so well.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @nout OP 22 Apr

Short version of what? Which God? It doesn't sound like you read the post...

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Malachi17 23 Apr

Read it. There is only One. It really doesn't matter what my take on that is. It more matters what each person decides that One God is.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @kenn_b 23 Apr

where is your proof that god is real that you can say it so blatantly as the truth?

Also, the ancient Greek's wouldn't agree with you, they had many gods.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Malachi17 23 Apr

He reveals Himself to whom He pleases how He will. I am not charged with offering you that proof. I am only charged with saying He is real. If you want details, you are better off asking Him about it.

There are many gods, with a lower case "g". There is one, eternal God.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kenn_b 24 Apr

ok, I go and start worshipping some diety, you convinced me. Hmm, which one I choose, maybe myself. Oh wait, right, I forgot I was the prophet.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Malachi17 24 Apr

Most people default to worshiping themselves. They will be answerable to having done so.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 23 Apr freebie

You can relate it with this wonderful poem

was it the day I ceased to be eleven, was it the time I realised that Hell and Haven, could not be found in geography, and therefore could not be, was that the day!