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1509 sats \ 18 replies \ @elvismercury 26 Nov \ on: The part of Bitcoin you *have* to trust bitcoin
This is the biggest thing missing from almost every discussion of btc, in my opinion -- what it means for it to succeed or fail, the various moves the state could make, what might happen as a result, and how we could tell, empirically, if it were happening.
My take is that most bitcoiners are operating under cartoonish assumptions about this, mainly from having never really thought critically about any of it and having instead incorporated the btc talking points as a matter of religion. The tell of this way of being are the grandstanding critiques of the existing systems, including prophecies about its ultimate fate, without actually understanding anything about it aside from what you've half-assedly absorbed from bitcoin podcasts.
A fun exercise is to tune in to media from the Hated Other and listen to how they make sense of the world. Feel the outrage rise up in you, all the but actuallys you swallow, or maybe don't swallow. And then realize that you're doing the same thing as they are. If you doubt that you're doing the same thing, ask some friends (or former friends) about what they think about your hot takes about their ideologies. Whether you're representing them fairly, in a way they'd endorse. Oops.
This behavior isn't unqique to bitcoiners, of course, although I used to expect better of them.
I sat down with Mike and talked to him for several hours back in 2022. From that conversation, I concluded that his priority is always his politics, and at a more fundamental level, his confidence in his own worldview.
We talked about a lot of things in those few hours, including libertarianism, COVID lockdowns, Bitcoin, Austrian economics. His take was consistently progressive, though he claimed to have been libertarian at some point. He defended the lockdowns, thought libertarian principles were BS, that Austrian economics was bad.
So for someone like that, I was surprised to hear that he was into Bitcoin, but then I learned that he worked for Jack Dorsey and it was actually Jack that convinced him over a number of weeks (interestingly, there was very little actual argument, just exposure to Bitcoin and its ideas). I'm guessing that once he left Dorsey's orbit (I don't know that he has, this is my speculation), his loyalty to Bitcoin disappeared with it.
It's really hard for progressive BItcoiners. Not only do they have their own political tribe against Bitcoin because of Trump, but their worldview is increasingly us vs them, which doesn't allow for much dissension in anything. I've seen a lot of progressive Bitcoiners drop one of the two labels. Mike obviously dropped the latter.
My life improved significantly when I removed access to "information on demand" from my phone. I have uninstalled / disabled all browsers and app stores using ADB, retaining only the essential apps (maps, communications, wallets, etc.).
A phone is an experience blocker; people primarily use theirs to distract themselves from uncomfortable emotions like boredom and loneliness. Life becomes much better when you stop self-medicating and instead learn to sit with these feelings.
I have dedicated environments for dedicated tasks. I can only access the internet via my PC. For good measure, I made it a standing desk.
Personally I have had enough internet for one lifetime, so I try and stay in the real world as much as possible...!
__@_'-'
Thanksgiving on the Timechain
Thanksgiving isn’t really a thing where I’m from… at least not the turkey-stuffed American version. But gratitude? Yeah, that translates anywhere. And today I’m feeling it heavy.
So, as I'll be a bit busy with my project, shared here: #1267778, which it's about to launch on Geyser, I wish to express my gratitude for the SN community.
This year, I’m thankful for something a lot of people outside our freedom don’t really get:
the SN Territories — those weird, brilliant, chaotic frontiers where we stackers wander like nomads of the timechain, dropping memes, wisdom, shitposts, charts, poetry, code, and the occasional existential crisis.
Every territory has its own personality.
Some feel like a quiet late-night IRC channel (~tech, ~devs, ~bitdevs).
Some feel like a rowdy village market (~AGORA, ~Memes, ~lol, ~gaming).
Some feel like a mastery where monks argue about value and energy (~bitcoin, ~bitcoin_beginners, ~econ, ~bitcoin_Mining).
And some feel like living in the comments section of a science documentary narrated by a drunk wizard (~AI, ~aliens_and_UFOs, ~oracle).
And I’m grateful for all of them:
~bitcoin
~Stacker_Sports
~econ
~lightning
~meta
~builders
~AMA
~Politics_And_Law
~BooksAndArticles
~privacy
~AskSN
~tech
~Music
~HealthAndFitness
~bitcoin_beginners
~nostr
~jobs
~bitcoin_Mining
~charts_and_numbers
~Photography
~art
~events
~gaming
~culture
~AI
~science
~AGORA
~security
~podcasts
~Stacker_Stocks
~mostly_harmless
~bitdevs
~devs
~Design
~Memes
~Animal_World
~Education
~the_stacker_muse
~crypto
~movies
~oracle
~aliens_and_UFOs
~Construction_and_Engineering
~lol
~Travel
~food_and_drinks
~DIY
~Geyser_community
~tutorials
~videos
~Cartalk
~mempool
~Christianity
~relationships
~hyperlinks
~dotnet
~flying
Every territory is a little corner where someone is building, sharing, teaching, bantering, or just trying to figure it out.
But the real reason SN feels like home?
The people.
The stackers who show up every day and make this weird orange cyber-village actually feel alive.
Massive gratitude to the folks who’ve encouraged me, challenged me, inspired me, orange-pilled me harder, or simply made SN feel less like a website and more like a living campfire around which the whole world gathers:
@k00b, @ek, @sox, @DarthCoin, @Undisciplined, @Justin_shocknet, @siggy47 — and the long, wild caravan of stackers who keep this place buzzing:
@k00b
@siggy47
@Undisciplined
@nout
@grayruby
@gmd
@BlokchainB
@ek
@cryptocoin
@Scoresby
@0xbitcoiner
@kepford
@Coinsreporter
@nerd2ninja
@Rsync25
@SimpleStacker
@CypherPoet
@elvismercury
@phaedrus
@WeAreAllSatoshi
@OneOneSeven
@cointastical
@south_korea_ln
@jimmysong
@cryotosensei
@Public_N_M_E
@MaxAWebster
@davidw
@Aardvark
@denlillaapan
@BTCMiner
@optimism
@TheWildHustle
@orthwyrm
@OT
@TNStacker
@benthecarman
@TheBTCManual
@jeff
@zuspotirko
@onions
@Car
@Satosora
@shyfire
@g4ala
@BitcoinIsTheFuture
@ExponentialBTC
@StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears
@ugmug
@plebpoet
@IamSINGLE
@tomlaies
@sha256
@jakoyoh629
@endothermicdev
@User21000000
@petertodd
@MerryOscar
@Signal312
@KenyaCoin
@melvincarvalho
@jk_14
@AR0w
@Cje95
@2bithits
@cozy
@abetusk
@nullcount
@RideandSmile
@mf
@relc
@gnilma
@Bell_curve
@pillar
@faithandcredit
@Majjin
@realBitcoinDog
@0xtr
@fiatjaf
@nullama
@dergigi
@freetx
@earnbitcoin
@falsefaucet
@Rothbardian_fanatic
@lpop4254
@mallardshead
@CheezeGrater
@stack_harder
@ch0k1
@thebitcoinbugle
@random_
@premitive1
@kristapsk
@thrown
@kilianbuhn
@Wil
@rheedi0
@P2P_bitcoin
@2big2fail
@billytheked
@clr
@shawnyeager
@rijndael
@Saxtheowl1
@NA
@Brunswick
@UlfMoby
@soggycakes
@Carresan
@jp
@mega_dreamer
@suraz
@BlueMoon
@notgeld
@BBitcoinUSA
@mudbloodvonfrei
@carter
@Fabs
@andyleroy
@02d10975a1
@moel
@metamick14
@Eljay
@go
@takaponka
@DeezSats
@cameri
@quark
@jack
@BlueSlime
@And1
@ODELL
@bitcointerest
@runningbitcoin
@iguano
@bitcoingraffiti
@samsamskies
@SatoshiNakanodo
@028559d218
@F
@398ja
@aljaz
@ssaurel
@LibreLoya
@satoshiplanet
@justin_shocknet
@sb
@roy
@uco
@Lumor
@niftynei
@chaoticalHeavy
@edblock
@BTC_LN
@nkmg1c_ventures
@zapsammy
@chungkingexpress
@verbiricha
@timechain
@cleophas
@OriginalSize
@bitcoinplebdev
@CarlBMenger
@sox
@hynek
@oliverweiss
@guyfawkes
@frostdragon
@calle
@pi
@cristaiji
@Atreus
@byzantine
@fanis
@Eximpius
@m0wer
@sethforprivacy
@dk
@BITC0IN
@BTCsessions
@bataroot
@itsrealfake
@scottathan
@jb55
@tnuts420
@franzap
@futurepaul
@DeltaClimbs
@shadowymartian
@SpaceHodler
@tip_nz
@softglitter2d
@satup
@lylepratt
@LibertasBR
@NEEDcreations
@SatsMate
@Shugard
@Alby
@crrdlx
@om
@purpurato
@qecez
@justsmile
@spain
@0260378aef
@987654321
If I missed you, blame my brain, not my gratitude.
So yeah… Happy Thanksgiving, stackers.
Thanks for the sats, the debates, the inspiration, the late-night dopamine hits, the orange wisdom, the chaos, the memes, the code, the stories, the push to be better, and the reminder every single day that Bitcoin isn’t just code — it’s people's power.
See you in the comments.
⚡🧡
its time to get IN your submission for SNZ #Classifieds
I am making the zine early bc we have a holiday to celebrate back home
anyone? anyone? a space for your propaganda on a small bitcoin art zine?
1 2" block for 1k sats - purchase and deliver your message here
Thanks @Scoresby, I was gonna post this on here today!
It’s a frequent question we get on Bitcoin Stack Exchange: if a block gets reorged, what happens to the transactions in that block? Do they all get unconfirmed and returned to the mempool?
And the important thing to realize there is, that from the perspective of each chaintip the other block might as well not exist. The best chain has only one block at each height, so competing blocks do not at all influence each other in regard to what is included.
Most of the time two competing blocks at the same height will include almost exactly the same transactions with some minor differences in what txs they had seen when they created their template, or some locally prioritized transactions. Obviously, the coinbase transactions will differ, and very occasionally, one block could include a replacement of a transaction while the other block included the corresponding original. But because miners try to maximize the revenue from the available mempool, they pick all the same transactions, and for the most part, either both blocks or neither confirm a transaction, so it makes no difference for the users which block wins out in the end.
Addendum:
Obvious exceptions are of course when someone is deliberately reorganizing the chain to revert a previously confirmed transaction, or when a reorg is so deep that coinbase transactions matured on both chaintips and said coinbase outputs don’t exist on the competing chains, so a reorg could remove whole chains of transactions from the history.
Per https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support, there are still some
no 1 and a handful of weak 2. I think that with a functional demo on inquisition (or a similar signet), the notable no can be addressed and, if the weak opinions are correct that there is not enough benefit to be had on its own, this can also be used to show a combination.Instead of building an activation client, build a signet.
Footnotes
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most notably jonasnick/e9627f56, which is comprehensive ↩
-
mostly arguing that it's too small a benefit to activate it on its own (instagibbs/eeb9d801, delbonis/14d1802c). ↩
Hello. I'm checking in on you guys after a little sabatical. Hope all is well.
Seems like I didn't miss much... Bitcoin is very boring, after all. As good money should be.
I remain fully allocated. I sold some sats for an electric bike half a year ago, but that's about it.
Observations:
-
Surprised (and suspicious) at how deranged the filter debate has become.
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Pleased that SN is still going strong.
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Lightning remains the most interesting project / ecosystem in Bitcoin. Nothing else (Ordinals, BitVM, Taproot Assets, Ark, etc.) has gained traction. Lesson in that.
-
Podcasters shilling doomed treasury companies has been extremely funny.
-
So-called libertarians sucking Trump's cock over the SBR has been even funnier.
__@_'-'
328 sats \ 16 replies \ @optimism 25 Nov \ parent \ on: This Is Not What Adoption Looks Luke bitcoin
At no point in time, unless you're in one of a few very specific communities (that are on the margins themselves), has Bitcoin been accepted as a norm. It has always been worked against from the moment it came on the normies' radar. From insane licensing requirements in NY, through the IRS taxing the hell out of any value retained (and only gained against the ever inflating fiat crap they print) to the hopefully now-ending era where middlemen and ponzinomics thrive through cronyism, has there not been anything encouraging or even enabling Bitcoin as an MoE. The only time it wasn't frowned upon was when there was no adoption at all and it was on no one's radar.
This doesn't mean that there's defeat, to the contrary. If politicians/bankers/scammers are looking to marginalize for-purpose Bitcoin-as-MoE and only promote it as some virtual asset you can buy but never sell because of the insane taxation, broker fees, and so on, then that's fine for them, but we're used to operating in the margins. Because that's where we started, and we've not grown out of that anyway. If normies just want to accept the ETFs and the Saylor scams, then that is their loss.
SN has an AI disclosure statement but I'm not sure how much it helps. Those who use ai to produce slop probably won't admit it, and those that use AI in a more appropriate way just have to spend a few seconds writing a generic statement
I think the problem isn't AI per se. It may be that AI has made a group of people who previously wouldn't submit contributions because they didn't feel qualified, to all of a sudden start submitting despite still being unqualified. Maybe when more people learn that AI is not a magic bullet, and that it still requires some degree of human checking/input, that kind of behavior will stop?
Hey @siggy47, I wanted to give you a heads up that I'm still thinking through postmortem posts for my time in South Africa. I've got all sorts of good news to share about what's going on over there, but it's been hard trying to write stuff out as I'm pretty disappointed in (and kind of depressed about) my own accomplishments during that time. It's actually way easier for me to follow up with the work than to even write about it right now. Just wanted to say something here in case you or anybody else anticipating those posts is noticing my totally unrelated stuff this week. It's coming at some point. I promise.
Tor and Pirate Bay have a track record of not being shut down
Yesterday I thought "that's correct", but I slept on it and now I think "that's incorrect."
Why: Both TPB1 and Tor have in the past been shut down partially, and they fight back. Bitcoin wasn't attacked like that fully, and the surefire way to get around this under oppressive regimes is use a VPN - or lift off Tor's work.
it is also possible that states have never really perceived them as worth shutting down.
They have definitely been targeted:
Tor:
- Early: Presentation listing occurrences up to 2014
- Recent: Russia, 2021, Iran, 2022 and other ongoing, see presentation from Dingledine, slide 54 & onward
TPB:
Bittorrent generic:
- US & EU, 2007-2008 - no longer in place, largely killed by net neutrality laws in EU but potentially to be activated again in the US due to y'alls newfound love for oppression (#847717).
our evidence that a p2p network can resist state control has never really been tested, as far as I can tell.
It has been tested on tor AND bittorrent and with active countermeasures, it can be beaten. It's a cat and mouse game, but you want to be the mouse, not the cat. The same category of methods an orditard would use to get around fIlTeRs are available to us all to get around state attacks.
If we want to win, we will win. It could be costly though.
Footnotes
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TPB is a centralized database of torrent files / magnet links, basically a centralized entrypoint. It's a service, like a single instance among Bitcoin's DNS seeds. The best thing about TPB is that if it ultimately gets censored and its operators jailed, someone else can just start "The Pirate Cove" and run their own discovery service; it's fully replaceable. So apples-to-apples would be comparing
bittorrenttoBitcoin, not TPB. As a protocol, Bitcoin has more centralization pressure than bittorrent, because you need to sync up with a global state, whereas torrents can be ran by anyone, anywhere, no initial peers required. You can paste your torrent on pastebin and get leechers. This is also why using Bitcoin as a file sharing system is kind of retarded as there are multiple superior protocols for this. ↩
Since the most limited resource here is experienced BIP editors, it makes sense to maintain a pretty hard line on the use of LLM generated text in BIPs.
You don't want to be wrong or negligent though. The issue is that something flagged up by an LLM can be valid, and you don't want to dismiss the underlying issue. What I currently do on my own repos is:
- Always judge for urgency: if something is urgent, process it regardless.
- Smell for slop. if something has a slop smell, deprioritize and don't look at it unless there is nothing else to do. If it's a sloppy feature, just ignore it forever.
- Ask questions. If someone cannot answer why propose something, deprioritize, or build an alternative non-sloppy solution and propose that.
Note that while this keeps most contributors that actually write code happy, it will piss off the vibe coders / talkers.
I've not yet made this a contribution guideline though. If someone wants to read and review slop, I let them. Though that rarely happens haha
Hey! good job on putting pencil to paper. I've found the best thing for long writing projects is to just force yourself to work on it every day. Sometimes you spend an hour or two and get nowhere, sometimes you make tracks. But it's the turning and returning to it that builds the story, like the many lines of a drawing.
303 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 26 Nov \ parent \ on: The part of Bitcoin you *have* to trust bitcoin
There’s also an excluded middle issue. Even when your critics are stupid and misinformed, there still might be undiscovered problems with your own position.
I know I often take it as confirmation of my own correctness when I realize someone who’s disagreeing with me can’t actually back up their position, but strictly speaking that isn’t the implication.
This piqued my curiosity so I hand decoded a bolt11 to check - it had s, p, d, x, c, r, and 9 tagged fields. I guess n is not typically included because you can calculate the public key from the message (bolt11) along with the signature. Omitting it saves space.
Of the tagged fields, only d or h should be included (a description or a hash of the description if it's too long to fit.) p and s are required for payment hash and payment secret, but n is optional. Those still have a mandatory length (even though they have a length field in the invoice) otherwise the reader wouldn't know what to do with them and shouldn't proceed. Keeping these fields with a data length parameter leaves some flexibility for future spec changes I suppose.
Is what this wants to say this: IF n exists, THEN parsing the public key correctly is so important that we MUST fail the payment if the length is wrong, since the public key will be used to verify the signature?
That's my interpretation as well.
Funny because Brock worked for Jack D. Actually was in charge of adding Bitcoin purchasing to Cash App IIRC.
I spent a good while living a life that looked something like "the worst." There's a lot to be said for it. And Moxie does a pretty great job presenting it, but perhaps too great a job: he glosses over the many times when the worst really let's you down.
Sure, having the best fork may not matter that much, but having the best knife is actually pretty great if you like to cook. Sleeping on couches is pretty sweet, but it is also a good thing to have the best mattress. Especially if you don't want to spend a lot of time sleep deprived.
The worst sometimes looks like making do and you discover that in some circumstances it takes quite a bit of time to make do.
I'm now a proponent of " The Good Enough" - which is a philosophy that works both ways. You need to have things that are good enough that they don't get in the way of the thing you want to be doing. And you want to be able to know when your stuff is good enough that you can stop thinking about it.
0x01 = 00001
0x0c = 01100
0x12 = 10010
0x1f = 11111
0x1c = 11100
0x19 = 11001
0x02 = 00010
00001 01100 10010 11111 11100 11001 00010
5bit byte to 8bit byte
00001011 = 0x0b
00100101 = 0x25
11111110 = 0xfe
01100101 = 0x65
00001101 = 0x0d
00000100 = 0x04
0b25fe650d04!