I don't know that I necessarily have a complaint, and I certainly don't have a solution, so at best, I can offer an observation.
I have learned more about the Lightning Network in the past 3 months on X than I learned here in the entirety of my stay here. The odd part though, is that this site and users have infinitely more knowledge on the subject than anywhere else.
X is completely full of morons, both inside, and outside of the Bitcoin community, and they are absolutely full of shit, especially when it comes to the Lightning Network. When I see somone spouting something that I know to be wrong, I am inclined to correct them. I'm not a big fan of misinformation.
Through the process of championing LN, it has forced me to spend an awful amount of time learning about HTLC's, counter party risks, watch towers, etc. etc. etc.
When I'm on SN, I get the distinct feeling that I'm already supposed to know everything, and if I don't, well then fuck me I guess.
I guess it just seems like a shame that the best wealth of information on the internet is simultaneously one of the most uninviting.
Good rant.
Hope life’s well
It is, and I hope things are going great for you too
I hate my new boss. haha
but I think I’m managing her well, even if I sometimes send Hokkien profanities to my trusted friend since high school days to bitch about her irresponsibility haha
What is a Hokkien profanity?
Hokkien is a Chinese dialect which boasts a colourful range of cuss words that refer to various genitalia parts haha
Lmao! I need to hear more!
okay I shall have a Hokkien profanity series.
first up, chee bye (vagina).
I use it when I complain to my friends about my boss asking me to do things beyond my pay scale.
CHEE BYE!
So you just call her a vagina? Is that a literal vagina, or a derogatory term for vagina, like when we call someone a cunt?
I’ve had and still have that same feeling, and I think it’s because of the constant need to create new posts about topics that just end up being self-contained. You might have a question or want to discuss something mentioned here back in 2023, but instead of going there and commenting in the hopes that someone who doesn't usually revisit old posts will reply, creating a new post often gets ignored or looks lazy. So, you just avoid it and end up stuck in a lonely search for content. It feels like the focus on new content still drives how SN works, even though they tried to change that in the last update when they introduced
lit.Under the current rules, if you zap an old post, the zap counts the same as a zap to a new post. So zapping an old post can easily bring it back to the front page.
The problem is it still seems to feel "old" or hard to interact with. I've zapped a few old posts aback to the front page, but have never succeeded in reigniting a conversation on such posts.
Do you have any ideas about how to make interacting with an old post feel more inviting?
I don't know that we've ever really talked about that in all of our many evergreenness conversations.
It's especially tough if the OP is no longer active.
There are also so other problems:
Maybe some of this is fixed if the person who zaps it back to the front page also leaves a comment (under LIT, this comment should be at the top). I've tried this a few times, but it doesn't seem to work too well.
When LIT first came out, I tried zapping interesting posts from "This Day on SN" and also tried leaving fresh comments on them. Even though many of this was dredging up pretty awesome old posts from SN's archive, I did not succeed in getting a conversation going.
I had thought it would be cool if the "This Day on SN" bot actually just zapped the top post from each day in previous years, but I don't know that people want to see that much old content on the front page.
When I was manually doing “This Day on Stacker News” I was zapping all of top posts and comments.
Some of the issues you mentioned might smooth out as we have more time with LIT. Comments may become more spread out over time for instance.
Excellent points.
I've deleted replies on "necro'd" old posts on SN after noticing the date of the original only after replying.
I suppose that's bacause of having been potty trained on old school forums where bumping old threads was frowned upon.
I think most of us would like old threads to come back to life. We just aren't sure how to do it well.
I think that’s it. We still need more and better resurfacing of old quality posts.
or simply a better and more detailed results and filters for the search
That too
I’ve noticed a shift in the kinds of conversations we have on Stacker News.
There were more educational discussions of bitcoin basics when I showed up.
In part, I think the people who contributed most to that probably got sick of rehashing it constantly.
I’ve always gotten really helpful feedback from posting in ~lightning but I’ve never compared it to X.
I don't want to just point a finger ar SN with zero introspection. Maybe this just isn't the environment where I personally thrive. There's obviously people here with completely different experiences and outcomes that me.
I think it’s fair.
FWIW, the people who used to post a lot about the lightning network tended to earn quite a few sats. Perhaps you could fill that vacuum.
So would you say that it's because you got into more arguments with people on X?
That's an interesting twist on the common perception that X is full of trolls and idiots
I would say that helped with learning quite a bit, but it seems like if I say something stupid there (which is often) it seems like a capital offense. Whereas on X you aren't immediately ostracized. It may just be as simple as my peer group is generally dumber and it's easier to interact with people on your own level.
I think it's only Darth here, right? Not sure who else comes off that hostile.
Sometimes other belligerent assholes wander through
From what I read in this post, it seems like you're really sensitive to less politically correct responses.
Yes yes, it's well known that Aarvarks are sensitive pussies... Not the balls of steel of us pure honey badgers
I'm pretty sure being a sensitive pussy is a compliment? Who doesn't love those?
Darn it!
I don't think that's it, but i would agree that this may all boil down to a "me" thing.
You probably referring to some specifics, I feel you, we know... Just know that there are no stupid questions, questioning and satisfy our own personal curiosity is what enable us grow our kowledge and understanding of this world. Don't be shy asking questions, and just because someone know more than other in a specific field does not allow them to treat others in a discriminatory way.
In the other way is about you, and try to don't take things personally. The internet is just a commonplace where personal background, culture, and other aspects are usually not considered.
Unfortunately, this cultural experience is nothing new online. Most well-established communities in the digital world give their rookies a ton of crap and little help. A few counter this, and even here, some of have been great guides on just how to get started. However, the common attitude is that if you're serious, you'll find the information on your own and work your way up to an experienced person in the community. It takes time; I've seen this play out repeatedly on Discord in different servers. Same on Reddit and so on.
Stacker News used to treat new people well. I’d like that to be something we can be known for.
Is it more than incentives? There's not a lot of incentive to treat new people well right now. And the fear of zapping a bot keeps a lot of people from even saying hello on new bios.
I think the bot issue is a large source of friction for newcomers. I know I don't engage as much with unfamiliar nyms as I used to.
I agree with that sentiment. Then I wouldn't have to mute/block certain peeps. LOL.
I learned a lot about lightning here, but as a lurker. I'm a really shy person and I find it challenging to enter conversations about stuff I don't perfectly know.
It's true that everywhere on the internet you can find forums with members who for some reason need to prove that you are worth less than them, this is true for Reddit, it is true for X and it is true for Stacker News.
This doesn't mean that SN is made of people that hate you, it's just that the people that have something against you are more likely to see your posts/comments and reply to you. On X, a platform with millions of users, you're essentially playing algo russian roulette instead.
I'm really sorry if this made you think that SN is the most uninviting bitcoin place. I actually raised this issue many times, but each time I think about this I always come to the same conclusion: we need to grow.
tl:dr I empathize with you, we're still a small community and this makes the experience less
diluted.personal: X is a cesspool and I can't even fathom the idea of writing something there without being cannibalized/doxxed/whatever.
I would love to be able to figure out what makes it more uninviting than X. Or even how it feels different interacting with people on X than it does on SN.
I definitely agree with the feeling that trying to explain a topic is what drives me to learn...and then getting corrected when I still get it wrong.
Seems like it would be good if SN felt like a place that was inviting. I'd be very grateful if you wanted to expand on this.
I think it boils down to the fact that there's more room for flexibility within a group on X. SN has already created a round hole that the peg had better fit into. There's no room for growth under the mantra "once a shitcoiner always a shitcoiner"
I'm certainly not saying everyone here shares that opinion but it's definitely a vibe.
Shitcoiners might always be shitcoiners or not, what matters is the topic and how it plays out. Your fear is just agreeing with someone else's point of view; you're taking a snapshot of a past moment and letting it stick to you. I don't get why others are afraid to dive into subjects they don't master just to try and gain some knowledge like you did on X—this fear of what people will think of you is more about you than the subject itself.
I don't think everyone here is a maxi. But the problem with the shitcoinery is that their proponents are often repeating a narrative - often they actually believe it - and they use this to lure people in to pump their bags. And if it wasn't lies from the beginning, then at some point the narrative will be changed by newcomers, we've seen that over and over again too.
But I don't see how that's relevant to learning about lightning on SN. What questions remain unanswered? Have links?
Yes, I see that. X has a huge user base, so there are many more viewpoints.
I've recently been posting a few things on BitcoinTalk and I've felt that it isn't terribly welcoming. But I wonder if some of that is just the foreign feeling of a new community (I don't know their norms, I don't know the personalities). You've been around SN for a long time though, so I don't think you are picking up on a thing that only affects new users.
I feel like the actual btc-focussed areas at SN (as opposed to places like ~books or ~Stacker_Sports) are like many subreddits (regardless of topic), with longtimers showing a lack of patience for what they perceive as questions that have been asked too many times, or are too basic to be "interesting."
OTOH, for all the reasons you state, the last place I want to hang out is X.
I don't feel like this at all. I can't compare with X or other communties, but I feel that if and when asked on SN I get the responses I need, from a much smallre community yest, but feels always more welcoming and open than random trolls in other places.
Just m two sats, so thanks sackers for making SN a place that make me stick around
I'm certainly not trying to call out individuals because there are some genuinely good people here. It may just be as simple as misaligned ways of thinking.
I agree, the answers are accurate and I've never had a problem with the more direct ones. It really depends on how you ask the question—whether you sound like a know-it-all talking about something you just read up on, or if it's a genuine question from someone who actually wants to learn. On these more fast-paced networks like X, the constant bickering between people who don't know what they're talking about is intense.
There's 2 types of wrong posts, wrong posts from naivety that are posted in a context of contrition and seeking understanding, then there are wrong posts presented as fact... that's not naivety, but either stupidity or malice.
The latter gets flamed, the former I'll always make an effort to elucidate.
I'll be the first to help a noob, but also the first to destroy someone who would mislead others.
A lot of wrong posts are just regurgitating things malicious people have posted elsewhere as fact without any discernment. That may be naivety, but the confident lack of discernment will trigger a firm response.
It's ok to be wrong
It's not ok to be confidently wrong
Have you tried going to the ~lightning and checking the posts instead of waiting for them to show up in the feed?
I highly support this approach. Problems and questions we may have, are probably already been answered and are just hiding in SN archives.
/search is my best and simple way to ask the SN knowledge database. If nothing come up I'll write a post
I'm always digging through old posts for suggestions or via search, and I have to say that the lack of replies can be discouraging sometimes. Still, I leave my comment anyway—you never know, someone might just get back to me.
That's my approach too.
I think this is fair. And you aren't even a beginner. Imagine a total novice.
puritans, puritans EVERYWHERE
do you mean maximalists?
Or that. Sure
What’s your handle on X?
It's not that difficult to figure out. 🤣
i think it depends, a person can ferret out lots of info on SN from the archives and also ask questions, and i dont think people are too harsh, but there is a difference between having a deep understanding of something and being able to effectively communicate that.
Like maybe we need a stacker Richard Feynman type.
Other than that, imo the reason you might have learned more on X could be linked to the learning concept of plus, minus, equals.
So basically, to effectively learn something, you need a plus (someone better than you to teach you), a minus (someone who knows less than you to teach), and an equal, someone on your own level to go back and forth with. + - = is perfect for marital arts too btw.
So by having to constantly explain or correct the tards of X , you have been reinforcing your own knowledge and have been writing down your thoughts, which has the benefit of also helping clarify thoughts.
And now you have the bonus of being far more knowledgeable about lightning.
just my 2 sats
truth is aggressive by its nature, as in destructive to the lies and the outdated modes of thinking-doing, so truth shud hit people hard; if SN stays uncompromising in its LN/Bitcoin/communications guides, it accomplishes the task of proper documentation of what to use, how to use, and why;
additionally, if one relies on the X-algorithms to learn about bitcoin, he is also exposed to emotion-provoking narratives about Bitcoin & the world at large; exiting slavery has to be done in an emotionless, calculated manner;
curate a list of resources for references from a variety of masterfully crafted guides/explainers; there is no single best source of information; one has to know where to look;
Good observation. Sometimes, when those with knowledge are quiet, then someone without it will try to make some noise. SN is supposed to be the go-to space for Bitcoiners, primarily. But unfortunately, that's not the case.
Great post Aardvark for uncovering a stone many would rather let be
This reminds me of many forums that we all have seen over the years, whether it's a car club or football team, the vast majority of questions asked could well be answered by using the search function.
In regards to our little corner of the Internet there are some absolute geniuses here with very high level knowledge of Bitcoin and Lightning
Personally for me if I see a post from Optimism, Scoresby, k00b, JS, Darth then I listen more than I talk
Trying to sound like you know it before you do doesn't end well and that is the toll you unwittingly pay
A roasting from a SN OG may sting at first but if you take a breath and re read it usually presents the reasons why it happened
Remember the skeleton boatman in Jason and the Argonauts? The coin you give the boatman is learning what you must know
Souls without payment are doomed to wander the shores for a 100 years before being accepted into SN 💀