I've been ringing with myself in regards to starting a family, for I greatly appreciate and care about the amount of freedom one gets to experience as a single male in his best years (not in terms of partying and girls though, I'm not that lucky).
As of now, I've found the next things to be "needed", making starting a family much more doable:
  • A (paid-off) house.
  • The (right) woman and in-laws.
  • A stable job with good pay (which I don't have and most likely won't have anyways).
  • Family support.
  • Financial buffers.
Although Bitcoin could aid in point 1 and 5 (and maybe even in point 2, too, for what girls doesn't like a man with a paid-off house?), I'd still need to find a solid job, which really goes against my goal of escaping the "rat race", and simply roaming the earth with a backpack on.
But; maybe I'd look at that differently a few years from now, for I am only 24 now...
Difficult, difficult...
I'm not looking for advice as much as I'm looking for how you guys deal / dealt with this.
PS: Why did the postage fees increase with 150%?!
This is how gen Z overcomplicates things. My advice is to find a partner, the right one, and walk through life together. No house, no buffers needed in advance. If your partner requires all those points from you (except for the point 2), he or she is likely not the right one. My five cents on this.
121 sats \ 1 reply \ @rax0m 3 Jan
I'm a rather young father of 3 and I agree with this.
We started a family in a 31 sq m apartment, later moved into a house.
Another point is that I would not focus on finding the right one, but rather someone you think you will be compatible with long term. I've had crushes, and bad ones, and I've been in relationships where I was in love to the death. But that does not necessarily mean it works out long term. Looking at facts is better. I believe a lot of humans are compatible, and able to live together forever.
A side note is that Trace Mayer is the one who inspired me to become a dad at a young age. I hope he's doing well
Good comment, thanks!
I also hold the believe that most people can work and grow together, and what's "perfect" anyways.
This is how gen Z overcomplicates things.
I have noticed that several times now.
What is different about genZ in this regard? I know Zoomers are the first generation that grew up with the internet, while early generations didn't have the internet growing up or grew up while the internet was becoming a thing. But how does that tie to the meaning of life question?
I can only give my personal opinion, donโ€™t have data at hand, but I donโ€™t remember anyone from my generation saying I need this, this and that to start a family. In addition, the fertility rate goes down, the average age of a woman having her first child goes up, number of young people living alone is ATH, other stats could be found - of course, these are long term trends, not genZ specifics.
Generation X was over-complicated too, but we had 'zines and punk rock, not social media to advertise our mental illnesses.
10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Fabs OP 2 Jan
Those are partially points i'd require from myself as not to be a burden to my family, as well as having less headaches about it.
How'd the "easy" route of yours go?
I met a girl and married her. Easy as that. We were both at a university, poor, without house, jobs, buffers. Now we are five, still poor, do not own a house, but the life has been a funny rideโ€ฆ
You definitely need to find the right woman, but everything else on your list can come in time. Starting a family is daunting and you'll find there's no end to the reasons to put it off.
I think people, myself included, make a mistake by intentionally delaying family formation. If you know you're going to want a family, I advise working towards it ASAP.
The biggest reason to get started as early as possible is that you get more time with your kids and grandkids before you die and they get more time with you. Once you start your family, it will probably dwarf everything else in your life in importance, so you should be trying to maximize how much of it you get.
Other reasons:
  • Parenting is physically difficult, so it's easier with a young body (especially for women).
  • Conception becomes more difficult with age (especially for women), so you might not be able to have the family you were hoping for.
  • If your and your wife's parents are alive, then your kids will get more time with their grandparents and your parents will get more time with their grandkids.
  • Everyday, potential spouses are getting married. Maybe the right woman won't be available anymore.
  • You'll be younger when your kids grow up, so you can still travel and enjoy all the stuff you'd be doing while single, once they leave the house.
Seems like this is one of those things where you're never really ready -- the goalposts will always move, you'll always want to be a little more certain, so beyond some very obvious criteria (e.g., don't be living under a bridge; don't be addicting to heroin), if you're gonna do it, you should do it.
Yeah, like some others commented already; Take the jump, most of the doubts and questions will answer themselves after.
Here is where arranged marriages have an advantage. IDEALISTICALLY. Maybe not practically.
537 sats \ 9 replies \ @Fabs OP 3 Jan
I sometimes wish for it to be arranged, but one could be worse-off that way.
Supposedly, there's no statistically significant difference between arranged marriages and whatever type of marriages we have.
Read Thomas Sowell and then discuss statistics.
Two families coming together to link up is very powerful. Especially when shit gets rough there are coaches available to help transition.
Not having "X" , a certain variable, is more of an excuse for failure than an attempt at success.
My PhD covered more statistics than Sowell's did. Maybe just make your point, instead of being shitty.
All I was referencing is something I heard about mean failure rates of the two types of marriages.
If it's not part of your culture then it's an idea.
My experience has been two marriages.
My second one is almost 16 years and we still are affectionate with each other.
My first marriage I was young but also I was a very broken person.
I recommend working on yourself and doing exactly what you have done as in putting your goals out there.
Writing by hand is even more powerful as it takes many parts of your mind and brain to do this. This aligns with reality quite nicely. When you talk to women if they don't get your goals then let them go. If they have similar goals then it means you are going to the same place.
As far as the house goes, it's her cave, not yours so don't give it to just any woman. She must be worthy. Once it's given then it's hers. So if she is not frugal then you will be broke. If you are not frugal she may help but you better get frugal quick.
I'd also recommend developing a personal spiritual (breath rite) that is yours. This will help when you get lost.
Praying is good, too. Your own prayer, not some nonsense someone else uses, unless you need to borrow some nonsense, then it's coaching.
I wish you success!
Valid comment, I agree with you.
Any idea where I can order the right woman? Preferably within the EU, otherwise postage fees would quickly rise out of the pan.
Sorry, I met my wife in high school multiple decades ago. I have no idea how kids today meet people.
Aww, me neither! What a bummer.
Most only meet to fuck around (literally) and make drama afterwards, not my thing.
Most take a fiat attitude to dating, really. I say this as a 17 year old. The fact dating apps like Tinder and the rest even exist is insane. Imagine showing that to those 50 years ago, or 100.
Yeah, I've never been a fan of those apps, paint's the wrong picture... Date2Fuck&JumpShip.
That being said; Having the necessary fiat does make life easier, especially with a newborn since both parents can be there full time.
If by some chance you meet someone you really like, hang on for dear life.
277 sats \ 6 replies \ @Fabs OP 2 Jan
But what if she doesn't hang onto me for dear life?! ๐Ÿ˜ญ
Respectful charming perseverance
Secrets from someone who feels like they get it from a life of what feels like success:
  1. Women - only pursue women of value, women who take life seriously, who don't want to date around, who protect their body, who have principles. These women won't drag you along and settle leaving you dating years and wasting life for "Experiences". The real experience is gained in a dedication relationship where 2 people value growing alongside each other for a life of fulfillment.
  2. Paid off house - we will get to this
  3. Stable job / Stable Pay - create tremendous value, build skills. You can work less hours and make more. Aim to build skills that differentiate you so that you can command a higher price, and therefore work less and earn more. (the house comes easy after this)
  4. Family - be intentional to grow and connect
  5. Financial buffers- keep stacking
1219 sats \ 1 reply \ @pillar 2 Jan
I would challenge the stable job idea. The idea of having a stable job is some kind of strange clown, fiat, hyper regulated world illusion. What the hell does it mean? You could have been a senior engineer in Nokia and find yourself jobless in a blink of an eye when it quickly went down.
I would replace that for a broader making-money stability. That means that:
  • you have marketable skills in sectors that pay well
  • you know how to sell yourself and even how to run a freelance/small business on your own
  • you work on improving yourself professionally
Job hoppers don't seem to do much worse than loyal-to-the-company employees, do they?
This is also related to having financial buffers, since a lot of professional endeavors you could chase will require some amount of capital for the kickstart.
The rest of your bullets feel very sensible to me.
I agree with you, and although I don't have any of the three points you've stated, I know how to get work if I need to.
"The rest of your bullets feel very sensible to me."
Which means that?..
A (paid-off) house. The (right) woman and in-laws. A stable job with good pay (which I don't have and most likely won't have anyways). Family support. Financial buffers.
  1. not necessary, it might even feel like taking away the freedom to choose together, like where to live.
  2. why do you need to care about the in-laws - you're marrying her not her family?
  3. not necessary, nothing is stable or should be.
  4. better to be independent, otherwise you would need to listen to your family.
  5. why? all you need is Bitcoin, stay away from banks.
and all I can say is stay healthy, keep stacking skills and sats, and be yourself - the right one will come one day when you are the least expected.
I had my first kid in my early 30s. As good as I can remember, I never took any material criteria into consideration for that decision.
  • I was mentally ready to take on the responsibility of raising and protecting a new person
  • My wife and I were on the same wavelength about what it would mean for us
  • We had (and still don't have) any family support
  • We didn't have what people would call a stable job, and at that time, not that much savings..
After that, everything took care of itself. As long as you stay focused on making sure that everyone in the family unit is mentally and physically OK, take time for yourself and your couple, and teach your kids to be independent. In my case, it actually triggered a lot of positive personal changes, and naturally made some decisions a lot easier to make. Having kids is like enjoying a permanent life compass, and after 3 kids, I can testify that it's the best decision you can make without waiting too long or over thinking it too much.
Yeah, I'd agree that once the kid's there, many questions answer themselves, and although solid financials aren't needed per se, they sure can take away certain headaches.
Good comment, thanks.
i forgot the main hurdle... my wife wanted to get married before we had any kids... never thought I would get married, never saw the point of it...
15 years later, no regrets. ๐Ÿค—
109 sats \ 0 replies \ @kytt 2 Jan
I just had my first child 2 months ago. I'm old for being a first-time parent and had a lot of fun in my younger days.
There are a lot of things I regret about dating around and if I could do it over again, I would have been a lot more careful and picky about who I spent my time with. Things are great with the woman I'm with now, but I feel like I missed out on a lot by NOT starting a family earlier.
Take your time. You'll definitely see things clearer in a few years. 24 years old is still plenty of time ahead of you to worry about the family part of the equation. Meet the right person, from there, you'll figure out how important the financial aspect will be for your situation.
Not as advice per se, but this is how I figured things out for myself.
Good luck. Don't forget the marriage contract. The rest is fun (and war)
Most definitely gonna make a contract.
Good. Live can be a rough journey
Sure, it's most likely to be an expensive matter in that regard, though ;D
Experience? If so, we (I) would like to know.
Nothing special. Went into my first marriage with a contract that prevented me from a financial disaster when the relation finally broke. I made the contract in opposition to anybody except of my father who said to me: ''if You need it, do it. You'll feel better.''
I'm happy for ya then, doesn't surprise me that the dad was all for it...
I still don't have any of those things expect a good woman and I am ready to have another batch of kids. Lol. Kids are magic. And they don't need much.
100 sats \ 1 reply \ @fred 2 Jan
You can always started your own company which make it flexible for you to do anything you want
Yeah, either that or financial and mental ruin, I choose the employee-way.
A lot of people have offered some great points. I definitely think that you may have over-complicated things - the only thing you REALLY need is the right woman. And you need to be the best version of yourself, to attract that woman.
You don't need a stable job, family support, financial buffers, and certainly not a paid-off house. They're nice to have (except the house - being tied down to one place complicates things in the early stages of a relationship) but certainly not necessary.
Hmm, yeah, I've found value too in most of the comments.
What are places that attract these mystified beings called "right women"?!
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fm 8 Jan
its never the rigth time..
From all those, this one is the key:
The (right) woman and in-laws.
all others you can manage along side your partner. that one is point number 1
people and time > bitcoin
I was def. not thinking about owning a house at 24
donโ€™t let perfect stop you from living lol
enjoy your single life and spare time - Sleep deprivation awaits u and your partner with kids ๐Ÿ˜‚
For me, the right time to start a family was when I started having a family. It wasn't "right". Nothing was. I was with a woman who I was cheating with and she got pregnant. 15 years later, I wouldn't change anything about it. These things happen if and when they need too. Do overthink things. Let it all unfold. And learn along the way.
My advice to you is find a right partner and start from scratch together. It will make your relationship strong especially when you remember how the both of you started. Financially BTC can do it but you need patience
Probably the best, rather expensive, advice regarding knowing you're really compatible with someone (before you even think of kids) comes from the Actor Bill Murray.
I think this happened when he introduced/gatecrashed a bachelor party in a hotel he was staying in.
Obviously one doesn't need to literally go that far - but such a journey, or a similar enormous challenge, will show you what might happen with the long-term challenges (and ultimately maybe more expensive ones) further down the line.
Enjoy your single days while you can because when you start a family, it's all different
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fm 8 Jan
so true
It takes commitment to start, you are still young to start but don't just get to 30 because you get too comfortable being single after that age
What would you say is the "right" age-bracket?
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fm 8 Jan
its about the rigth person.. you can find that at different ages
The right person evolves you into the man you need to be. In other words, you will be motivated to do the things you know you have to do when you are responsible for others other than yourself.
On the other hand, you arent even at stage one yet as you dont have the right woman. Stop overthinking, go to church, find wife material, and build your life around that. Whats the point of being 50 with a paid off house if you only attract gold diggers? Get her while you're poor so she can be a part of the journey.
Yeah, I would'nt say a word about Bitcoin... In the beginning. ๐Ÿ˜†
You're right though, dying lonely is so... Lonely.
Everyone dies alone. Don't get together with someone just to be with someone.
Not if we die together, wanna take the leap together?!
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 2 Jan
Life happens
It will work itself out
Don't try to force having a family. Just be open to it and be the best version of yourself to attract good potential partners. You are young, enjoy the journey. Work hard, be active. Two decades will fly by and you will be middle aged like me.
50 sats \ 1 reply \ @Fabs OP 2 Jan
Meh, it comes when it comes don't it?
Middle-aged and bitter as apple vinegar, or sweet and caramelly like maple sirup?!
Depends on the day. Haha.
Don't rush it but don't hold back. Wish I'd had kids earlier. There are still some more serious dating sites out there which might still be helpful in narrowing down a potential spouse. Maybe fish in a city with more potential matches, then move out to your citadel.
Hah "Don't do it, but do it bud". ๐Ÿ˜†๐Ÿ˜„
Just kidding, I know what you mean.
What sites are you referring to? I'm more of an in-person dude, though.
I'm not up to date and don't know adoption of apps/sites in your area. If you manage to start a relationship from in-person encounters (instead of a one night stands), that's probably preferable. Probably makes for a better story when people ask how you met in the future. ๐Ÿ˜
I don't agree with the second point. IMO you're not marring the in laws. If you find the right woman, forget about the in laws.
Don't worry about not having a own house, now days is normal for a couple to chip in and pay the bills together.
Well, I can imagine that the girl would want to stay in-touch and have their family over at our place, especially during holidays... I don't want it to turn into those typical "nobody likes anyone, but we're here because we have to" events. I really don't need that. A girl is an all-in package, as I like to say.
Iโ€™m curious, what are the monthly costs associated with a new born baby? The internet has a lot of conflicting information.
I would like to know, too!
Greatly depends on the country, as well as personal wants / needs, of course. But a general trend would be interesting!