One my biggest ah-ha's from having to negotiate my rent this year, is that negotiating is the only way to come to a mutually beneficial price (in an extremely thin market).
Prior, negotiating felt imposed on me by the person I was negotiating with, as if they wanted to take advantage of me. But, in dealing with my feelings around it this time, I realized there's no alternative to negotiating if both parties seek to benefit maximally. Cooperation requires negotiation, and I want to cooperate, so I need to learn to enjoy it and not take it personally. If the goal is to maximize personal benefit, the worst case of a negotiation is a tie, which actually isn't so bad. And if the goal is to reach a fair arrangement, as you do in a long iterated game with a landlord, a tie is exactly what you want.
It's a simple thing, but I was wrong about it in a big way. I brought this up to someone and they suggested that it's likely a symptom of our culture. In the US, the markets are so standardized, commoditized, and "thick" that negotiation isn't part of most transactions. In other counties, where there aren't so many abstractions, we concluded negotiating is far more common and almost certainly not as distasteful.
Anyway, how do you feel about negotiating? Do you like it? Hate it? When was the last time you negotiated something and how do you feel about the result?
In the US, the markets are so standardized, commoditized, and "thick" that negotiation isn't part of most transactions.
Never thought of this before, but now that you say it, it's clearly true.
Sad story:
I was traveling through Africa some years ago. As a white dude, I drew a ton of attention, and people would swarm around me, wanting to "talk" to me, the scare quotes indicating that such conversations would invariably end up with them pestering me to buy trinkets I didn't want.
This faux-friendliness made me feel gross and angry, and after a bit I'd just ignore them, which would result in me walking down the streets with some dudes scampering around me making increasingly aggressive conversational gambits, me walking stoically forward, bleeding out psychic energy.
After several minutes of one such encounter, the guy, as a closing remark, said: "You must be from Spain."
This was an odd enough approach that I broke my strategic silence. "Why?"
"People from Spain think they're better than everyone, and so do you."
This made me feel terrible, bc it was literally the opposite of what I'm about, and it was the entire reason for my behavior: where I'm from, acting friendly to someone just because you want them to buy your shit is fake and gross. I interpreted his behavior through that lens.
To him, however, the encounter meant something else -- the wish for me to drastically overspend on his doodads could live harmoniously with a genuine desire to be friendly and to connect.
This was years ago. I still feel awful.
I also wonder wtf encounters he had w/ Spaniards that led to that comment, but I lost my chance to find out.
Anyway, your observation is very wise. I'm curious how you've been able to operationalize it? The anti-negotiation thing runs so deep in me I don't know what I'd do with the insight, honestly.
I've had similar experiences in the Caribbean.
To me it's not just that faking friendliness feels gross, but being treated purely as an economic opportunity by someone else is literally dehumanizing. The confronting part, though, is recognizing that I am a big economic opportunity for many people and really through no fault of theirs or credit of mine. Considering their situation, it's no wonder they would take the strategy they're taking.
I went to Cape Verde on vacation a few years ago. It's an interesting place, where people from Europe, mostly tourists, meet Western African merchants, mostly from Mali, Senegal, or The Gambia, and native Cape Verdians. As a tourist, you can't walk 5 minutes on the island without being invited to visit a shop to buy stuff you probably won't need, but the experience is the opposite of what you describe. They'll invite you very politely, insist a tiny little bit, but then let you go with a "no stress" comment and a smile if you decline the offer. I think they understand the pointlessness and counterproductiveness of harassing tourists...
Most of my negotiations are with my 8yo, and usually are about bed time, when to leave the park or a play date to go home etc. We would agree on a time, then no one is allowed to change the terms without renegotiations. It usually goes like this
Him: "Can I have 30 minutes more?"
Me: "No, that's too much because so and so... I can give you 10 more minutes"
Him: "No, twenty"
Me: "I said 10"
Him: "20, that's the middle of 30 and 10"
Me: "I don't agree with that, 5 minutes then"
Him: "what, you said 10 before"
Me: "now, I say 4"
Him: "OK fine, then 10 minutes"
Me: "OK, 10"
Clever kid
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252 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 9 Jun
I'm curious how you've been able to operationalize it?
It's only a way of thinking about it really, but it's better than my modus operandi before, which was only a way of feeling about it.
Using our recent example, I started by saying we wanted to "buy" but needed to pay less than was offered. Then they asked what we wanted to pay and I answered honestly, respecting it wouldn't be what they wanted. Then it became a game of bid-ask ping-pong, and armed with this realization, I played like a good sport (despite them seeming to get upset at times but not because of anything I specifically did).
The game previously felt offensive, but I think honest play is merely defensive. Each party is defending their final price because once it's revealed, it terminates the game, and prematurely terminating the game in your favor is rude in a thin market. It's like deciding you'll win the game and aren't seeking a tie. It's okay for a game to not arrive at a tie, but if you actually care about your opponent, you should seek a tie.
Unfortunately, it's necessary to not reveal your final price in advance of playing the game, but only because it's the surest way to make sure you aren't easily taken advantage of (in a perfectly thin market, there isn't any other information aside from the ping-pong gameplay). At the end of bid-ask ping-pong both parties are much more likely to feel sure a tie was achieved, because just like in a real game of ping-pong, no one deserves to say exactly how the game will unfold before playing.
Spain 🇪🇸 definitely thinks this way about football or soccer ⚽️
For me personally, negotiating is my daily bread since I am dedicated to selling accessories for smartphones... here in Peru and selling here is not easy, it is a public or market where people are distrustful and not only that, they are a little proud. when choosing or buying and I have to use all my tools to convince them... and the most important thing in the end is to negotiate the final price since they love it o They always ask you to leave the price of the most economical product at the price that I indicate when offering my product... so negotiating for me is all day and which currently, after 2 years, I handle quite well 💪
I absolutely hate negotiating.
This may be a shortcoming of being an introvert but I feel like I'm haggling on a flea market, cheapening/lowballing the product someone is offering or worse, being a poor beggar.
Like in a shop, I either accept the price on a tag and buy the product, or not and move on.
It depends on the scenario, but in general, I too hate the game.
I feel insulted and disrespected when I'm told the price is X and I know it is half that much somewhere else.
There must be a psychological reason this is done, ... like maybe the dopamine hit to the seller when maybe one out of ten shoppers actually simply agrees and pays.
113 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 9 Jun
like maybe the dopamine hit to the seller when maybe one out of ten shoppers actually simply agrees and pays.
This could be true, and I've totally felt the same way before, but I'm beginning to think I've been cynical. They might have good reason to charge more and the only way to know is to ask or, if it's more comfortable to be indirect, begin negotiating.
13 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 9 Jun
I can see that, but try to flip it around. Is the seller being a cheap beggar by asking more than you'd like to pay? Or, are they only communicating what they'd like to be paid before you get a chance to communicate your preference?
Look at it this way: my only way of "communicating" is to go somewhere else (in the sense of communicating a price signal).
This stems from several reasons:
  • As an introvert, I optimize for having fewer interactions with people. So I will simply look for a better apparent offer and accept that (possibly) I could've haggled even more.
  • I work under the assumption that the seller should know best what their product is worth. Highballing and betting that the buyer is not aware of the "real" price is scummy and I wouldn't want to deal with this person anyway.
  • Living in the EU, I am used to price arbitrages being pretty much gone and price of everything being very close to "optimal", so there isn't much room for negotiation anyway.
Definitely a cultural/regional thing. When you find yourself at the Turkish bazaar and don't negotiate you will be considered as a sucker, but in the US we see the price and if we are OK with it, we pay and walk away. Nothing wrong with either. I heard that a compromise is when no one is totally happy, and I think that's the closest to the truth one can find. I would say I negotiate when I can (e.g. starting salary or rent, price of a house, etc.) other wise I try not to. The ideal situation is that I could afford whatever I want without worrying about the price, but I'm not there yet.
It’s exhausting trying to negotiate everything.
Save negotiations for big ticket items
I used to feel awkward about negotiating, until I needed to do it as part of day to day work. The best thing I can suggest is simply doing preparation beforehand to find 3-4 comparable prices from competing providers. That way you are not trying to beat down a vendor's price that is subjective, you have something to anchor to and can share 'alternatives' with all transparency, without any feelings of guilt or awkwardness. The market is good feedback for them also. But I know in non-Western cultures it's far more common to try and negotiate off-the-cuff without this in your pocket.
It would be much more efficient if we didn't need to do this, but I don't believe haggling is a consequence of our fiat world. Quite often the case, especially in bigger negotiations are expecting the conversation to arise and therefore they "pad" or sandbag their initial offer, knowing full well they may need to reduce it later.
The exception to this is IMHO if you really want to work specifically with a specific individual, quite often the less time spent negotiating and the more time spent building shared incentives (as you highlight) - the better and longer-lasting the outcome.
124 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b OP 9 Jun
The best thing I can suggest is simply doing preparation beforehand to find 3-4 comparable prices from competing providers.
In the early days of podcasts, I would listen to a lot of the Adam Carolla show. I’ll never forget similar advice that he gave, speaking as a former contractor himself. His twist was “get three quotes and pick the middle one.” His reason being that the cheapest likely has suspicious quality, and the most expensive is hoping you don’t get other quotes. I’ve found that really useful when I renovated a home for a friend in the past and have used it for all kinds of non-home things.
Quite often the case, especially in bigger negotiations are expecting the conversation to arise and therefore they "pad" or sandbag their initial offer, knowing full well they may need to reduce it later.
Ah, yes, these “anchors” as I’ve heard them called are really common but mostly because of how effective they are.
The exception to this is IMHO if you really want to work specifically with a specific individual, quite often the less time spent negotiating and the more time spent building shared incentives (as you highlight) - the better and longer-lasting the outcome.
Great exception! I initially overlooked the point you were making here because I’ve learned to be afraid of such attachments due to how significantly it weakens my negotiating position. But, you’re so right, you can shift the negotiation to allowing them more access to the upside of a successful partnership. It effectively derisks your attachment/favoritism.
get three quotes and pick the middle one
I'm glad to hear credible confirmation of this strategy. It's something that occurred to me years ago and seemed reasonable enough that I've been doing it ever since (or, at least, intending to).
It holds for products as well as services. Absent specific information, the cheapest option is likely to be garbage, while the most expensive probably has a bunch of features you don't need, so choose the middle.
Getting more than one quote is a way of negotiating without negotiating
Rule of 3
I like getting 4 quotes but 3 is good
My parents would only hire the cheapest guy after getting multiple quotes
Drove me insane
When you travel, and I am not talking about Orlando Florida, negotiation is mandatory. If you grossly overpay by not haggling, the vendor will consider you with nothing but contempt. When you go to a market, observe the locals before you buy anything. Check prices for the same thing from different vendors and observe the price differentials. Offer an insanely low price way below what you are willing to pay. Then walk away. If they don't call you back, the price is too low. Next time, you have to adjust upwards, incrementally. If you offer a price, and they immediately accept, you have paid way too much. When you are within the margins, the dance begins. The golden rule is to never offer or accept a price that you are unwilling to pay. This would be considered an inexcusable horror.
Try buying a carpet in Turkey (it's practically mandatory). Right @Natalia? They have centuries of haggling experience and if you don't haggle, you are losing an incredibly valuable opportunity, along with money you could have bought more sats with.
In the U.S. you cannot haggle at WalMart. The price is the price. Take it or leave it. But for every contract, there are terms and conditions and pricing that are absolutely negotiable.
personally I don't like to negotiate, only necessary when it's being unreasonable or I simply walk away; and as a foreigner living in other places, you have to know how much around you should be paying things for, especially when living in hyperinflation counties, some ppl really no shame dare to overcharge you 10 times.
Try buying a carpet in Turkey (it's practically mandatory). Right @Natalia? They have centuries of haggling experience and if you don't haggle, you are losing an incredibly valuable opportunity, along with money you could have bought more sats with.
haha, it depends on where you are buying from! From resellers, you HAVE TO negotiate, because most of them are not being honest, especially seeing a foreign face; but I've learned buying directly from the makers, the price is quite good, so I don't need to negotiate much - it took some diggings and many travels, and these ppl normally offer a fair price, even give you discount without asking, maybe they appreciate that you came all the way to visit them, most of them are living in villages and only getting a tiny fraction of the reselling price. ( the manufacture world is quite dark, the real markers are not getting fair rewards. )
Also depends on the ppl; if they want to build a long term relationship with you, they generally will offer a fair price to keep things running instead of just one time big price.
My Strategy
  1. Knowing roughly the price from experience or comparing
  2. Choosing the right people to buy/ get things from
Prior, negotiating felt imposed on me by the person I was negotiating with, as if they wanted to take advantage of me.
as for @k00b's situation, remember that the price is always about supply and demand; make sure you always have options as backup and subtly let the other party be aware of that, so you won't be in the weak spot; and hinting that how many houses potentially damaged by bad renters. 😂 ( and look at how well I'm taking care of it )
In principle, I like negotiation, for the reasons you describe.
In practice, though, I hate it. The insincerity of it really bothers me, as does the inefficiency.
If it's a situation where someone gives me a genuine initial offer that doesn't quite work for me, or vice versa, and we hash it out, that's great.
However, the norm seems to be intentionally giving bad offers, just in case you can sneak something past the other party. Then, the negotiation is just trying to figure out all the ways the other party is trying to intentionally screw you.
However, the norm seems to be intentionally giving bad offers, just in case you can sneak something past the other party. Then, the negotiation is just trying to figure out all the ways the other party is trying to intentionally screw you.
This experience made me wonder if that's the intention or just what a fair game entails. They can't safely assume you're honest and you can't assume they are honest either. You have to play to see.
If you trust someone though, know someone well, then I agree. It should suffice to not hide your cards and mostly trust they won't take a peak to gain an advantage.
I'm sure a lot of my irritation is just from being a new member of the socioeconomic class that gets solicited.
Until very recently, I never lived in an affluent enough area that people would expect to get anything out upcharging their services by thousands of dollars, because no one could afford it and they'd just be told to take a hike.
Now I have neighbors with deep-ish pockets and the buzzards are constantly circling. I am confident that they know they're grifters.
I've meditated on this a little more and I think part of what's going on is a perverse selection process in who you're likely to be negotiating with. Since most Americans seem to feel a bit icky about haggling and negotiating, they're going to avoid careers doing it.
Negotiation heavy jobs are then going to draw from whoever doesn't feel whatever weird shame the rest of us do. Well, it's no surprise then that our negotiations are often us vs some sociopath trying to scam us.
If bargaining/haggling/negotiating were more of a normal part of our culture, then more honest people would be involved in negotiations and they wouldn't seem so scammy.
Great point. This might be why we trend away from negotiable goods once more efficient price mechanisms appear.
Salespeople love to negotiate and they tend to be psychopaths. I say this in the nicest way possible
134 sats \ 2 replies \ @dk 10 Jun
the best negotiations have both parties walking away feeling they gave away a bit too much
Yup, good deal is when no one is happy :-)
A great compromise leaves everyone dissatisfied
Try reading ‘Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It’ by Chris Vos.
He’s a former FBI hostage negotiator. Opened my eyes. He has done a few podcasts as well and his story and thoughts are really interesting.
33 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 9 Jun
I've never read a negotiation book, but I've always been interested. I'll try to find him on a podcast.
I get the sense that negotiation was once fundamental to the human experience, and our sovereignty is weakened in its absence, and people who know a lot about negotiation, understand people really well.
It seems to be a uniquely human quality we have tried to remove from our lives
I would recommend this book if you are interested in Negotiating! Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
I do it in my day job every day as I am in Finance & Procurement. I don't take it personally. In the end, you should be able to find a middle ground that maximizes both parties wants, and if not, you should be willing to walk away. In the beginning, I didn't like to negotiate but over time, it can get pretty fun!
"Never Split the Difference" is a book written by Chris Voss, a former FBI hostage negotiator. It provides a practical guide on effective negotiation tactics and strategies based on Voss's experiences in high-stakes situations. Here are the key points about the book:
Key Takeaways
  • The book challenges conventional negotiation wisdom and advocates using counterintuitive techniques like "mirroring" to make the other party feel heard and defuse tensions.[1][3][4]
  • It emphasizes the importance of emotional intelligence and empathy in negotiations, rather than just logic and rationality.[1][3]
  • Voss shares nine effective principles and tactics he used as a negotiator, such as accusation audits, calibrated questions, and bargaining with "No" instead of compromising.[1][3][4]
  • The book draws from real-life examples and hostage negotiation scenarios to illustrate how these techniques can be applied in business negotiations, salary discussions, and personal interactions.[1][3][4]
  • It provides insights on how to use your voice, questions, and listening skills to gain leverage and steer conversations in your favor.[3][4]
The book has been widely praised for its fresh perspective on negotiation and practical advice that can be applied in various contexts.[1][3][4] It aims to give readers the competitive edge in any discussion or negotiation situation.
Sources [1] Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It [2] Never Split the Difference - HarperCollins Publishers [3] Never Split The Difference | The Black Swan Group [4] Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It [5] Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It
The last time I negotiated was when I bought a new phone in December, used by the previous owner. In fact, my father took the main initiative in the negotiations because I just followed my emotions. He negotiated PLN 50 down the price, i.e. about USD 12, not much, but it's still something. I admit that I may be too young and have no experience in negotiations, but I would like to do it as much as possible one day to achieve the best possible compromise.
I like it when it's easy. For instance - something I want (but don't "need to have") on Poshmark. I will almost always offer a much lower price. They will always come back and either say yes, or offer to split the difference. So that's not a problem.
On the other hand, I was in Burma once, and negotiating with an obviously poor roadside seller of...well, I can't really remember.
What I do remember is I tried to negotiate, and then later asked a Burmese friend if I had gotten a good deal.
He said something along the lines of "when they're so poor like this seller was, we don't really negotiate."
Made me feel about 1 inch tall.
Made me feel about 1 inch tall.
Oh man I just lived that through your story. I guess always negotiating can be as bad as never negotiating.
Postmark? I am impressed!
I think women are more effective negotiators because they are better at lying
Am I crazy and sexist for thinking this way?
I enjoy negotiating. I rarely do it anymore but I had to do it a lot when I owned my business.
Yes, proprietors understand. You don't have a choice!
71 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 9 Jun
I bet you did and it's probably a different animal at that level. Lots of information (dis)advantages and a kind of coolness about it needing to make sense for the business in contrast to it being a personal item.
Now most of my negotiation occurs with a 5 year old and she is generally entrenched in her position.
I hate it. I always feel dirty and violated afterwards
Do you still feel dirty or violated when you have the ability to walk away? Do you negotiate frequently.
I can identify those feelings around negotiating but after this micro-epiphany I think they aren’t due to negotiating ime. When I feel dirty it’s because I was dishonest. When I feel violated, it’s because I felt like I had no other option but take a bad deal.
Do you still feel dirty or violated when you have the ability to walk away?
Hard to say. I rarely negotiate. Usually only when I have to. Theoretically though, if I can walk away, I think it would be a better experience than if I can’t.
Do you negotiate frequently.
No, very rarely.
When I feel dirty it’s because I was dishonest. When I feel violated, it’s because I felt like I had no other option but take a bad deal.
That’s probably the case for me, too. The violated is far more frequent - but more around feeling like I could have gotten a better deal, or a less bad deal, than I did
Theoretically though, if I can walk away, I think it would be a better experience than if I can’t.
Great point. I usually prepare for a negotiation by preparing myself to walk away, reminding myself of all benefits of this particular deal not going through, and borderline ignoring all the downsides. When SN did its seed round, I remember going into it thinking "I don't need this money, if I don't get it I will go into personal financial hibernation and make it work until I'm worthy of the raise."
The violated is far more frequent - but more around feeling like I could have gotten a better deal, or a less bad deal, than I did
This sounds like how I've felt in salary negotiations. There's a huge information asymmetry, but as I can almost call myself an employer now, I was overthinking it. The biggest risk for an honest employer is paying someone more than the value they provide, going broke betting on someone or many people (if a large org) that don't deliver. So, theoretically, if I were to go back, I'd probably seek to arm myself with what my colleagues are paid, and think clearly about the relative value I was providing, then arrive at a fair price for myself and prepare to walkaway if I didn't get it.
(In the past, I mostly dealt with negotiations by convincing myself to walkaway, then making absurd asks. While it was effective on the few occasions I did it, the outcome was super unpredictable.)
You've been brainwashed. Do you also buy stocks, Bitcoin, etc at market prices? Or do you negotiate using limit orders - selecting your desirable purchase price?
Limit orders 100%
ETA: I guess it’s the human interaction component of negotiations I don’t like. I can do it fine with a computer
Think about how comfortable Donald Trump is. He calls it the Art of the Deal.
So you are uncomfortable with face-to-face negotiation!?
Got you! 👊🏽
Thank you for the perspective. I didn’t consider actions like placing limit orders to be negotiations
In Africa if you don't have negotiations power it means you can not survive. Culture difference is strong.
I've never been a fan of it until i started working for myself it's part of selling yourself and the confidence you have in your product or service and part of price discovery, your customer has done some research they have a ceiling they got from speaking to others or expected value return, and so we share that info with one another
I think if an individual feels secure in their abilities to make choices, negotiating is a serious act of reinforcing the structure of self-efficacy.
In cultures where negotiating IS a feature, I wonder how it came to be practiced in such a widespread way. Even as simply a social/etiquette "game," it reinforces a relationship between individuals (often strangers) in which they are tasked with reinforcing their sense of self-efficacy.
We all did it in barter economies. America likes to make people think we have stable prices. But if you are here you now know that to be bullshit.
This is interesting because the shift I'm describing is that my preferences as a buyer are as valid as the seller's. Me having preferences doesn't invalidate the seller's preferences and their preferences don't invalidate mine. I think negotiating could help people establish a sense of self-efficacy, or at least, a sense of where their self is effective and where it isn't (and give them information to change their self to be more effective if they want).
I wonder how it came to be practiced in such a widespread way.
The other thing I think I've learned recently is that it's more unnatural for negotiating to be absent, because in low information markets like those we evolved in, negotiation is required to establish fair prices. So markets are either high information and don't require negotiation, or they're low information and without negotiation, they're unfair.
Negotiation is just the most 'complete' process of price discovery, i.e. where both parties have a say. Like OTC trades vs the auction or order book model with makers and takers.
You don't negotiate as a customer at Walmart, you take the price or leave it. It would be inefficient to negotiate, who would you negotiate with anyway? The checkout machine? But Walmart has to compete with other chains, and that competition is implicit negotiation, because if you don't like the price, you go to the competition.
In my culture there isn't much negotiation when it comes to small value items, but there is negotiation when it comes to bigger decisions like rent, salary or house sales. When I was buying my current home, I actually put in a higher offer than the asking price, because that was the market here: if I hadn't, someone else would have outbid me; I'd already missed one opportunity and didn't want to miss this one.
We have a lot of immigrants from the Middle East / Asia, where there is a strong negotiation culture, and they run a lot of small grocery stores and stands at street markets, where negotiation is more commonplace. I don't usually start negotiating, but when I say something is too expensive, they will sometimes come out with an offer.
In my country, negotiation is still commonplace, so I feel comfortable with it because I grew up haggling, when you are negotiating both parties are going to seek to benefit from the possible agreement, so you have to find a way to benefit and not only benefit the other party.
100 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 10 Jun
I like the "how much is this thing really worth to me?" aspect of negotiations. That's also why I like eBay. I don't mind buying used stuff, the price only needs to be low enough for the product condition.
I also like negotiations where you can include other aspects like benefits or bulk discounts since it makes me creative.
But I don't get many chances to negotiate so maybe it would get annoying fast.
You must visit Southeast Asia more often. Here, bargaining is a way of life. In fact, the customer is king early in the morning because some stallholders are superstitious n need to convert the first “browser” of the day to a paying customer.
When I was a poor college student, I absolutely adored negotiating. The fast n furious turn-taking - so fun!
These days, not so much. I would be distracted by the amount of extra time I have to spend on haggling.
I’m still not good at negotiating my pay though haha
Here's an area where Americans miss out in my opinion, except in certain markets like swap meets and flea markets, which are rare. I used to love trips to markets in Mexico and other places where the word negocio actually means business.
Americans think you are being cheap if you negotiate. Aristocratic if you don't care about price. My grandmother, a depression-era mixed race (mulatto in SW Mississippi ) picked up a durogatory term from her white bosses. I remember teaching her to stop saying "Jew 'em down". The language was bad. The practice was not.
I negotiate where I think the merchant has the power.
Enjoying negotiating and getting the best deal is my thing. It's important to approach negotiations naturally, and both parties should avoid getting upset. It's a process where even if you don't reach an agreement, neither side should feel resentful. Negotiation is very culturally dependent. For instance, in Europe, people tend not to bargain much and don't enjoy it. On the other hand, in Morocco, they might get upset if you don't negotiate with them, even if it benefits them.
It can be a high!
29 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 9 Jun
Have you been to Morocco and experienced that? I’m curious about what that would look like.
I've never been to Morocco, but I have experience haggling with Moroccans. In recent years, there aren't as many as there used to be, but before, there were many Moroccan street vendors in Portugal. I loved haggling with them because they would always start with an extremely high price and end up selling for less than a tenth of that. They probably still made a good profit, haha.
If you have time, read the following article, which discusses the topic of cultural issues in negotiation.
Negotiation is an art in itself. Business schools, even Harvard University, have it in their syllabus.
There's is this book that I wanna recommend everyone if they want to get what they want...
have u ever tried to negotiate a lower coffee price with a Starbucks barista?
how about negotiating a deal with a local butcher?
therein lies the difference:
  • one is operating under a business which is beholden to the shareholders, who want higher and consistent profits as the first and final objective.
  • the other is still attempting to retain quality customers and provide quality service, and profits are 1st but sometimes tied for 1st and 2nd objective.
as far as rent... i am cutting my rent and size of the living space in half but adding a gazebo, in the same neighborhood. the landlord also really want me around, great relationship with them and the dog. for them the price is basically secondary.
34 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 10 Jun
I'd argue it's less about shareholders and profits and more about whether the thing being sold is standardized and commoditized. The social dynamics are relevant too, but I'm not sure that's all there is.
A local butcher has a unique product and sells it in a unique environment. Starbucks is the same everywhere. Starbucks is so large and abstract and the market for their product is so liquid, you don't have leverage in a negotiation. If you don't buy at their listed price, 100m other people still will. In contrast with the butcher, his business is comprised of hundreds of customers at most and adding a single customer can make a big difference.
Correct analysis
The lines at Starbucks are long enough. Can you imagine if every customer tried to negotiate? Complete madness
This is why we have menus and price tags in grocery stores.
You can’t negotiate on Amazon. You can negotiate on eBay but it depends on the seller.
Both Starbucks and the local butcher wants to maximize profits and customer satisfaction.
Think of all the substitutions Starbucks allows. Decaf cappuccino. Espresso ☕️ is supposed to be caffeinated!
I don’t like it at all. I avoid it whenever it’s possible, but if it is not possible to avoid it I try to do my best.
31 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 9 Jun
I like it!
But not when my threenager negotiates on his meals
I hate it, tbh. Negotiation does not make me feel very happy when somebody does it with me for something. So, I gave it up. Neither I do Negotiations, nor I let anyone do with me.
100 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 9 Jun
In many parts of the world they will take advantage of this attitude. When I was traveling it just always bothered me that I had to pay more so I embraced negotiating. It’s like a game or a little drama. You make up an excuse for why it is too expensive.
A good way to find the real price is to walk away. If they let you go, your price is too low.
In my opinion, negotiations should be conducted in large places (such as businesses and rent etc) But I do not like it in daily necessities.
If you can't negotiate, even if you want to or not, there you have a problem. Standardization is not a problem, it's actually good for it speeds up exchanges. The problem you refer is not standardization but monopolization. If you can negotiate, there's freedom of choice, the counterpart knows you can go somewhere else, and will try to collaborate to get the deal.
Great question! I like doing negotiations everytime I find an opportunity. But I'm not at any administrative position so I do it for fun..
Negotiating your raise is something else. Unless you have something they need, it usually doesnt work out as much as you want.
I enjoy it. The art of the deal.
I don’t like it but usually necessary
Is this for renting your residence or commercial space?
Residential. We knowingly overpaid to get into last year's lease and there's a lot more supply this year.
Then you made the right decision to negotiate
I experienced the same thing as a landlord a few months ago. Great tenant already made up her mind to move to a cheaper place. I tried to persuade her to stay and offered rent reduction but I was too late.
One month later she asked if I had other houses for rent.
Why more supply this year?
People leaving Austin?
23 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 10 Jun
Yep, and a lot of the airbnbs are seeing less demand
I wonder if inflation is affecting tourism. Probably.
South by south west Austin city limits
There's no negotiations in my experience. There's only increases every year, you can stay or move the F out.
How do [you] feel about negotiating?
Fuck a duck. How do I write this thing and not review the title? These kinds of errors are so annoying, because my mind sees what it knows, not what someone else sees.
Haha, don’t worry. I read it and, even though I noticed, I understood the title and carried on reading.
By the way, not very fan of negotiating though sometimes you have to do it. Most of the times, I do not feel I am winning.
If the goal is to maximize personal benefit [and you can't walkaway], the worst case of a negotiation is a tie
That's a real semantic mistake. A tie in this case could still be "bad," but if you can't walkaway it's because you need the deal and the fact that it happens at all is a "tie" you should be grateful for.
Negotiating is an art that all of us who make a living practice, especially when you are a salesperson, it is knowing how to interact and connect with the client.
negotiating is a powerful networking tactic. always use it when possible
Can you expand on that? What’s the relation between networking and negotiating?
i have received many substantial discounts as well as great surprise offers (and free sh!t) just for being good and consistent with good and consistent people. who needs a negotiation book when u can find someone better and get a better deal, or develop a mutual relationship and then negotiating is effortless and even welcome.
God will open doors for you, to meet new people to negotiate with as you pursue networking for your purpose and also serving others' purpose!
One industry that needs more negotiating is medical especially hospitals and doctors
A thin market is characterized by a low number of buyers and sellers, resulting in low trading volume and liquidity. Here are the key points about thin markets:
Low Trading Volume
  • Thin markets have few transactions occurring over a given period, leading to insufficient trading volume for efficient price discovery.[1][2][4]
  • Low liquidity makes it difficult to convert assets into cash at fair prices.[3]
Lack of Competition
  • With few market participants, there is a lack of competition and increased market power for buyers or sellers.[3]
  • This allows participants to dictate prices above competitive levels (for sellers) or below competitive levels (for wages paid by employers).[3]
  • It also facilitates collusion and market manipulation by the few participants.[3]
Volatility and Inefficiency
  • Thin markets are inelastic, so small shifts in supply or demand can cause significant price movements and volatility.[1][2][3]
  • Prices may not accurately reflect true supply and demand conditions due to the low number of transactions.[1][2]
  • In residual cash markets, prices may be inefficient if transactions do not represent the broader market for contracted goods.[5]
  • Agricultural markets with low production volumes
  • Labor markets in rural areas or company towns with few employers
  • Financial markets for thinly traded assets like private equity or collectibles
  • Housing markets in certain areas[3][5]
Addressing thin market issues requires facilitating more market participants, reducing barriers to entry, or ensuring transactions are representative of the broader market.[1][3][5] Regulation may be needed to prevent exploitation of market power in extremely thin markets.[3]
Sources [1] Thin markets - BEAM Exchange [2] [PDF] thin markets - University of Wisconsin–Madison [3] How Antitrust Can Better Regulate Thin Labor Markets - ProMarket [4] Thin market Definition - Nasdaq [5] [PDF] A New Taxonomy of Thin Markets John D. Anderson, Darren ...
The two examples given are agricultural products and rural areas
Trump is popular with farmers and rural voters
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