SN resolves to go noncustodial on Jan. 3rd

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SN resolves to go noncustodial on Jan. 3rd - FAQ & AMA

What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

So, what happens to the sats in my wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

So I don't need to panic because sats in my wallet after Jan. 3rd will remain available to withdraw just like they were on Jan. 2nd?

Yes, that's right.

If my sats remain available to withdraw, then what changes on Jan. 3rd?

To zap with real bitcoin and be zapped with real bitcoin, you'll need to attach an external lightning wallet for sending and receiving respectively:

If you want to send real bitcoin to other stackers when you zap them on SN, you'll need to attach an external sending wallet.
If you want to receive bitcoin when you're zapped on SN, you'll need to attach an external receiving wallet.

If I don't have or want to attach external wallets, what happens to the zaps I send and the zaps I receive after Jan. 3rd?

When you zap someone else, you'll send Cowboy Credits and they'll receive Cowboy Credits.
When someone zaps you, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.

What are "Cowboy Credits"?

SN will accept Cowboy Credits as payment for everything it accepts sats for (e.g. posting fees, territory fees, even donations). You can also send them to other stackers as zaps.

So the only difference between Cowboy Credits and sats is that I can't withdraw Cowboy Credits?

That's right. That's the only difference.

What happens to rewards and territory revenue after Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. Rewards and territory revenue will work the same as they do now.

Even if I don't attach an external wallet?

Yes, you'll receive "Reward Sats" which (like all custodial wallet balances) are not to be mistaken as truly yours until you withdraw them. You can also buy Cowboy Credits with Reward Sats if you choose. The only real changes to rewards after Jan. 3rd are:

Reward Sats can't be zapped to other stackers
Reward Sats are subject to the following magic words, aka terms and conditions:
- From time to time, Company may, at its sole discretion, offer and provide prizes or awards of BTC ("Reward Sats") to individuals or entities based on Company initiatives, promotions, or for other reasons determined by Company. Company reserves the right to issue (or not issue) such Reward Sats to any person or entity, at any time, and without prior notice. If you are selected to receive Reward Sats, Company will notify you and will transmit the Reward Sats to your account. In order to claim the Reward Sats, you will be required to set up an account, and may be required to provide certain personal information, including but not limited to, a valid Lightning wallet invoice. Failure to provide accurate and complete information may result in the forfeiture of the Reward Sats. You acknowledge and agree that you do not own, and shall have no right, title, or interest in any Reward Sats until such time as the Reward Sats are successfully transferred to your designated Lightning wallet. Until the transfer is completed, all rights to the Reward Sats remain solely with Company. Company makes no guarantee regarding the timing or availability of any such Reward Sats.

Can I zap other stackers my Reward Sats?

No, without an external sending wallet, you can only zap other stackers Cowboy Credits.

Do Reward Sats, or any of these changes, involve KYC or so-called "soft" KYC?

No, they do not.

What if I receive sats to my SN lightning address after Jan. 3rd?

If you've attached an external receiving wallet, those sats will be non-custodially proxied to your receiving wallet by default. Should you choose, you can disable proxying in your settings and receive sats directly, exposing your receiving node's pubkey.

If you haven't attached an external receiving wallet, or disabled both proxying and direct receives, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.

I have more questions about Jan. 3rd. Where can I ask them?

In this thread. Ask me anything.

I'm a territory founder and this change makes me regret paying for or purchasing a territory.

Please email me.

I'm having a bad day, week, month, year, or life. Where's the best place for me to make you miserable too while pretending that this post is the cause?

In this thread.

I'm miserable but also sanctimonious so I'd like to write a eulogy for SN that you'll read. Where's the best place to do that?

In this thread, but it might be more fitting to write it on nostr or X and tag me.

Will SN ever offer a custodial lightning wallet again?

We may eventually partner with Zebedee and/or Strike and/or whoever to offer a 100% OPTIONAL integrated and regulated custodial wallet, but that will happen well after Jan. 3rd.

What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

This is a repost of an earlier announcement. See #731188 and #722833 for previous discussions.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 31m

Sorry if the question has been asked elsewhere, and thank you for making the change to non-custodial. Is it possible to have a comment added when we zap someone? For example having a comment "Zap x sats @ y on SN" would be helpful when looking at the history of our wallet.

210 sats \ 7 replies \ @elvismercury 11h

This will reveal that I am a dumbass, but I'm finally making the jump and attempting to set up a lightning node and hook it up to SN like a big boy. I know there are many LN guides about how to do this wrt specific node software (e.g., LND, phoenixd, Core Lightning, et al.) but is there something that explains stuff in a SN-specific way?

For instance, I'm confused why some of the attachment options are unidirectional; I'm confused about what exactly happens in the different use cases. A channel is being opened in this process, but how, and for how much?

I will unravel this eventually, I expect, but I'm guessing there are resources that could accelerate the process. I looked to see if @DarthCoin had anything specific to SN, but no dice. Pointers appreciated.

108 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 11h

There’s a collection of community written guides: #816152

We don’t open channels for you yet.

The UX around attaching blows. As it’s the most nice-to-have thing, we’ve put it off the most.

Consensus right now is that if you’re self-custodial and don’t have a public IP, running Alby Hub on your node and using NWC is the best.

If you’re up for a game of whack a mole, https://coinos.io/ provides a really excellent custodial wallet (you’d use nwc for sending and their Lightning address for receiving).

108 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 11h

but is there something that explains stuff in a SN-specific way?

@supratic created some SN guides, see #817503 or bio

For instance, I'm confused why some of the attachment options are unidirectional

It's either because we haven't implemented the other direction yet or the wallet/protocol doesn't support the other direction. For example, lightning addresses can only be used to receive sats, they can't send sats.

I'm confused about what exactly happens in the different use cases

It shouldn't matter which wallet you attach, we handle them all the same in our code (fetch bolt11 invoice, pay bolt11 invoice). So which wallet you attach only depends on if you have this wallet/protocol/node available. Some require to run a node, some can be used with a custodial service etc.

Most attach a lightning address for receiving and/or use Coinos (custodial) or Alby Hub (free if self-hosted, else 21k sats per month in the cloud) with NWC for send+recv. Keep in mind you can attach multiple wallets for both directions, we will simply fallback to the next wallet if the first one didn't work.

A channel is being opened in this process, but how, and for how much?

Attaching a wallet doesn't open channels, it only gives us a way to communicate with your wallet.

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @elvismercury 6h

Thanks, this is super helpful. Can I ask a follow-up? Man, I hate being so dumb.

Attaching a wallet doesn't open channels, it only gives us a way to communicate with your wallet.

Then how do I transfer the sats I've earned on SN to the new wallet? SN will send the sats over some set of channels; is the assumption that my node will have opened enough channels with enough capacity on various routes to receive that amount of sats?

In other words, there's the basic connectivity of setting up the wallet and telling SN how to identify it; but all the connection, to allow sats to flow to and from it, is basically an exercise left to the reader?

218 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 6h

Can I ask a follow-up? Man, I hate being so dumb.

Of course, don't be shy :)

Then how do I transfer the sats I've earned on SN to the new wallet? SN will send the sats over some set of channels; is the assumption that my node will have opened enough channels with enough capacity on various routes to receive that amount of sats?

Yes, to send sats on lightning you need enough balance on your side of your channels (outbound liquidity) and to receive sats, you need enough balance on the other side of your channels (inbound liquidity). If you need to manage channels and how depends heavily on what wallet you're using.

If you really want to run your own node, I'd recommend phoenixd which manages liquidity for you for fees.

If you also want to manage your own channels, I'd recommend setting up LND and open a private channel to SN (= channel that isn't announced to the network so it isn't used to route payments of others). You can then send some sats back to yourself onchain via a service like boltz.exchange so you have inbound liquidity on that channel. You will then enjoy zero fees for send+recv on lightning to SN.

To connect that LND node to SN for zapping, you can run nostr-wallet-connect-lnd (NWC) or LNbits on top of that LND node.

In other words, there's the basic connectivity of setting up the wallet and telling SN how to identify it; but all the connection, to allow sats to flow to and from it, is basically an exercise left to the reader?

Mhh, channel management could be part of our planned guides

12 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 2h

If you also want to manage your own channels, I'd recommend setting up LND and open a private channel to SN (= channel that isn't announced to the network so it isn't used to route payments of others).

This seems like a v interesting option -- I've already setup LND, and it would be cool to learn incrementally how to do channel / liquidity management. But how does one open a private channel to SN?

108 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 6h

Yes unfortunately. You have to manage liquidity to your node. Unless you’re using phoenixd or a custodial service. It’s rather hardcore as is.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 10h

there is also https://rizful.com/ which also has a dedicated guide for SN

38 sats \ 0 replies \ @leo 23 Dec freebie

Super cool, this motivated me to finally connect my Stacker News account to my own node via LNC. Seems to work smoothly! I think it will change my zapping behavior a bit, as now every zap is a real lightning payment. Fewer, but bigger zaps.

12 sats \ 1 reply \ @Brunswick 23 Dec freebie

Where are the sats custodied before the send-threshold is reached?

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 23 Dec

You mean for autowithdraw? The only sats subject to autowithdraw are Reward Sats - which come from rewards and territory revenue - which we custody until you (auto)withdraw them. The main thing about this whole transition is that zaps, uniquely and specifically, are never custodied.

19 sats \ 5 replies \ @316da2be5f 23 Dec freebie

I don't understand something, please help me out here.

Why can't you deploy something like an ecash mint, but utilize the same legalese magic words that you used for "Reward Sats" for the ecash tokens?

Make it clear that the ecash tokens do NOT entitle you to any sats, and only at the company's discretion could they be exchanged for sats, and only for a duration exclusively determined by the company, the mint could be shuttered at any time, etc etc? Wouldn't you then be no more a custodian for those sats as you will be for "Reward Sats?"

Hell, it even seems like as-written you could mint ecash tokens that represent these "Reward Sats." But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer.

111 sats \ 4 replies \ @k00b OP 23 Dec

What problem does that solve though?

185 sats \ 2 replies \ @316da2be5f 23 Dec

My (likely flawed) understanding is that you guys can custody funds but you can't custody+transmit them without some crazy expensive license, right? Or are both off limits?

With a chaumian ecash system, it doesn't seem like you would be doing the transmitting. The transmitting happens peer to peer, out of band. Ecash has essentially the same properties as a physical gift card; whoever holds it can give it to someone else. The issuer can choose to honor it regardless of who brings it back to them.

Arguably, you wouldn't be doing any custodying either, especially if you are upfront about the fact that you won't guarantee that the ecash will be redeemable for sats. Then you aren't holding anyone's sats - because there is no agreement that those sats belong to anyone but you, until the moment you decide to allow a redemption.

You might look towards Roblox Corporation's "developer exchange" program as an example to see how they have carefully defined "Robux" as something which can "sometimes" be exchanged for real money, but also Roblox is under no obligation honor the exchange - they reserve the right to renege at any time, change the exchange rate, etc. In practice, they readily exchange it for USD at a stable rate always. It appears they may have crafted this language specifically to avoid being classified as a custodian of any kind.

In theory, I think you could apply something like this to Cowboy Credits, and in practice, most of the time, choose to allow people to redeem them for sats. Even better if users handle the transmission themselves in a peer to peer ecash style. Basically I'm saying, issue an ecash-style token which is, at your discretion only, with no guarantees, redeemable for sats.

But I assume you've probably already talked with some very smart lawyers who have explained why it's not actually equivalent to a gift card. But maybe have them look into what Roblox is doing with the developer exchange if they aren't familiar.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 23 Dec

But I assume you've probably already talked with some very smart lawyers who have explained why it's not actually equivalent to a gift card.

This stuff is all so new, every lawyer you talk to will tell you something different at the margins. But, fundamentally:

we CANNOT custody money while it's in transit from person A to person B (without mtl/fsb licenses)
we CAN custody our own money that we are paying to person C

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 23 Dec

It sounds like you're describing two things to me:

ecash note transmission can happen out of band, so it's not money transmission
Roblox's Cowboy Credit/Reward Sats system

We are effectively doing (2), but perhaps we are missing some aspects of it which we will add over time. Thanks for the rec!

For (1), SN would still be custodying the bitcoin even if the claims on the bitcoin are self-custodial. If ecash notes represent a claim on bitcoin, or if starbucks points represent a claim on dollars, then the ecash mint and starbucks are transmitting money when the ecash or points are transmitted - out of band or not, and even if there's a delayed and un-promised realization of the underlying asset.

(Also, besides, ecash being out of band isn't really true in practice ... the mint is still involved in transfers if the recipient doesn't want to be double spent.)

211 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 23 Dec

On second reading, I think what you're describing is that we use ecash tokens instead of CCs. Because ecash is better because it can be converted into money? That's exactly why it'd be money transmission. Fundamentally, ecash is subject to all the same laws that custodians are subject to -- because ecash mints are custodians.

The reason why Reward Sats are legal is because we are paying you our own money, and NOT money that someone had us send to you on their behalf.

Most of what you hear from ecash proponents about getting around laws is premised on lots of people breaking the law to run unregulated ecash mints. Their ecash future is premised on a mass protest - which is awesome, but it isn't magically legal, in fact, it's explicitly the opposite.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 22 Dec

ZBD is very nice, but also costly. Look at the pricing schedule before committing to them.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 22 Dec

How many hours will site be down on January 3? Approximately?

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 22 Dec

Zero hours

14 sats \ 0 replies \ @DavidDobis 21 Dec

Wait, but @k00b, what happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Sorry. I had to.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DawnoftheDead 21 Dec

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @02e239a2a8 21 Dec

I am angry and this is stupid and I am very upset and this confuses me and you suck

Cheers

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 21 Dec

I bet that felt good

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @02e239a2a8 21 Dec

I love your cheeky reminders and your sarcastic style, but I didn't see anyone being a douche in the comments

Someone's gotta step up

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Dec

Jan 3, 2009 was the genesis block

Samson Mow started a project called Jan3

New Congress starts on Jan 3

Partnership with ZBD will be easier than Strike because Strike has a large compliance team

I always see openings for lawyers at Strike

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @sangekrypto 21 Dec

To do zapping with real bitcoins and zapping with real bitcoins, you need to install an external lightning wallet to send and receive respectively:

If someone hasn't installed Lightning Wallet, will the sats on SN disappear? Or are there any impacts if it is not installed?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 21 Dec

If someone hasn't installed Lightning Wallet, will the sats on SN disappear?

This answers that:

What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

Or are there any impacts if it is not installed?

This answers that:

If I don't have or want to attach external wallets, what happens to the zaps I send and the zaps I receive after Jan. 3rd?

When you zap someone else, you'll send Cowboy Credits and they'll receive Cowboy Credits.

When someone zaps you, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 20 Dec

If others are getting a horse and a pistol for using p2p zaps, do I get also a special icon for using only CCs ?

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b OP 20 Dec

You get the privilege of only needing a hat. You are a special kind of cowboy like that.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 22 Dec

So the only difference between Cowboy Credits and sats is that I can't withdraw Cowboy Credits?

That's right. That's the only difference.

And thus, you have caught yourself in a blatant lie. Cowboy Credits also cannot be used to obtain a gun

19 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 20 Dec

I wonder what a lasso could mean

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 20 Dec

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @Jon_Hodl 20 Dec

Will bounties for posts like the Monday meme contest be paid in CC or Sats?

I assume it's CC if you don't have a wallet attached and sats if you do, yeah?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 20 Dec

For the bot’s bounties they will be CCs to start. For everyone else’s bounties, it works like zap - if both parties have attached wallets, it’s sats.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 20 Dec

We can probably force sats for bounties, but on Jan 3, it'll work like a zap (under the hood a bounty payment is the same thing as a zap).

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 20 Dec

The invitation links will pull the sats from an external wallet?

21 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 20 Dec

No, they will use only CCs.

I think at some point we should allow to pre-fund (and withdraw from) them so you don't need to keep CCs in your wallet just to honor invite redemptions.

33 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 20 Dec

pre-funding invitations make sense and easy solution 👍

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 20 Dec

Did you ask because someone had issues with your invite links?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 20 Dec

no, not issues yet. yes last days I had some invites joining but they didn't said anything about not receiving the sats.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 20 Dec

cool, created a ticket

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @satcat 20 Dec

Why have you decided to do this?

46 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b OP 20 Dec

Because the alternative is paying millions of dollars in licensing fees and waiting several years for the privilege of kycing and surveilling you all so I can transmit nickels on your behalf.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @satcat 14h

So does this mean you'll be completely removing bitcoin and lightning nodes from code?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 14h

No.

The legal issues here revolve around custody, specifically custody of funds while they're in transit from person A to person B. SN will still run nodes. SN can still be paid in sats.

The ONLY thing changing is that we can't allow you to zap sats that we're holding for you. Everything else is just a consequence of that.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 22 Dec

Then you should just do that... It would be moderately more convenient for me if you did.

Thanks bro.

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @satcat 20 Dec

Damn

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 20 Dec

Yeah pretty wild

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @godlikeXi 20 Dec

Seems legit. Simplifying infrastructure and making changes to stay sane makes it more manageable.

If it’s a chore and it’s painful you will question why the fuck are you doing this?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 20 Dec

#817274

49 sats \ 1 reply \ @kilianbuhn 19 Dec

btw is Jan 3rd a special date?

Bc it's the same day when Alby shuts down their custodial service.

Is there anything happening on Jan 3rd 2025? Or is it an accident/random?

334 sats \ 0 replies \ @OneOneSeven 19 Dec

The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

15 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rsync25 19 Dec

I made my move last month. Non-custodial is the way to go

299 sats \ 0 replies \ @supratic 19 Dec

Connect your wallet to SN before the 3rd Jan:

25 sats \ 0 replies \ @PictureRoom 19 Dec

Thank you for the clarity

24 sats \ 10 replies \ @af1f6f3e17 19 Dec freebie

Does it work it LNC to receive sats or only to send?

12 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

For now only send because making LNC receive work on a backend with multiple servers is a mess

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

Only to send right now. @rblb made it receive in a PR, but it's not meant to be used this way, ie multiple multitenant servers, so it required more hacks than I could live with and probably still won't work very well despite all our efforts. Even for sending it's pretty bad because it can't be used in multiple tabs/devices simultaneously.

I'll revisit it though and see if we can make something that works well enough.

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @af1f6f3e17 19 Dec

Thanks for the info, will it work better once LND has bolt12 working?

68 sats \ 6 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

bolt12 won't fix LNC, but we'll allow you to receive via bolt12 soon. We have some code for this already. It just needs to be reviewed.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @af1f6f3e17 19 Dec

to receive via bolt12 on stacker news wallet you mean?

73 sats \ 4 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

Yep, you'll input a bolt12 like you would a lightning address or any of the other attachments.

18 sats \ 1 reply \ @af1f6f3e17 22 Dec

ah ok, but LND does not support bolt12 yet, probably after 0.19.0

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 23 Dec

we will use LNDK along-side LND:

While LND does not support BOLT 12 at this moment, you can run LNDK along-side your LND node to begin trying out BOLT 12.

-- https://bolt12.org/developers

edit: Oh sorry, I see you meant receivers that use LND won't support BOLT12

reply on another page

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BeeAye 22 Dec

what about a backup receive option? in case the first option is unreachable at that moment for whatever reason.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 22 Dec

You can currently do that. It’s already supported and will continue to be

reply on another page

12 sats \ 4 replies \ @flat24 19 Dec

Hi @k00b I'm using "Coinos" with NWC since last time when they announced that we needed an attached wallet.

Am I ok with that???

On the other hand, I'm a little confused where you talk about disabling or enabling a proxy to receive. Can you help me with that confusion?? Or am I already doing fine, with my attached wallet of Coinos?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

Your existing attached wallets will continue to work.

Can you help me with that confusion??

What exactly are you confused about? How to enable/disable?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @flat24 19 Dec

If you've attached an external receiving wallet, those sats will be non-custodially proxied to your receiving wallet by default. Should you choose, you can disable proxying in your settings and receive sats directly, exposing your receiving node's pubkey. If you haven't attached an external receiving wallet, or disabled both proxying and direct receives, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.

This is the part that left me confused... I don't know if you're talking about some more advanced option for something else, or if it's something I need to do in my attached wallet. Thanks for your help! 👍

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

Oh it's an advanced thing. Proxying is for privacy.

If you don't need the privacy, check the direct receive box in your settings and you'll be good to go.

15 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

I think the confusing part is that we didn't mention that proxying is only for receiving via the lightning address, not receiving in general

1574 sats \ 2 replies \ @rizful_com 19 Dec

We recommend using Rizful or Alby Hub with a NWC connection for Stacker News!

PSA: https://rizful.com/docs/use-rizful-with-services#use-rizful-with-stacker-news

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 19 Dec

This is really good. I just try it and worked really nice. I must add it to my guides. Thank you!

18 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

wow, thank you for this dedicated guide!

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB 19 Dec

Will cowboys credits ever go away?

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

If everybody sends and receive sats, yes.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB 19 Dec

How? If everyone uses a self custodial ln wallet?

62 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

doesn't have to be self custodial, just everybody needs to attach some wallet that can send and receive

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @BlokchainB 19 Dec

My wallet connection fails often. What happens when your wallet isn’t working and you get zapped by real Sats and not CCs

59 sats \ 7 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 19 Dec

you'll get cc's

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

this guy cc's

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner 19 Dec

😕 i don't get it. english mistake?

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

I was just trying to be funny :/

34 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB 19 Dec

Sadness

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

sadness credits

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Taft 19 Dec

That's why you need to make sure that your wallets are always plugged in.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

or at least one of your receiver wallets is working

65 sats \ 19 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 19 Dec

I'm testing an alternative to alby, in NWC you have two connection strings, one for sending and one for receiving. For now I've only tested sending and it worked. My question is whether it's the same string for receiving or a different one. Coinos only offers one string. I followed @realBitcoinDog's tutorial and he doesn't mention this, he uses LN address to receive. cc/ @ek

33 sats \ 10 replies \ @rizful_com 19 Dec

This is the one of the must confusing things about NWC with Stacker News currently. We've discussed with @koob and it's likely this behavior will be re-worked in the future, but for now, you need TWO DIFFERENT NWC STRINGS.... Our guide is here for Rizful but it should also work for other NWC back-ends like Alby Hub and others..... https://rizful.com/docs/use-rizful-with-services#use-rizful-with-stacker-news

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

it's likely this behavior will be re-worked in the future

Do you have suggestions? I think this is a limitation of how NWC is generally used since we don't want to store spending permissions on our server.¹ So afaict, we need two separate connections since one needs to be on your device or encrypted on the server and one needs to be in plaintext on the server.

I think all we can do is to explain this better but wallets will continue to have to provide two different strings unless the spec is updated in some way. 🤔

and nobody should if they want to claim they are non-custodial ↩

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

I think the solution is to separate send/receive into independent steps as we've discussed.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

ah yes, independent steps can explain it better but we will still need two different NWC strings so I was replying to the "for now" in

but for now, you need TWO DIFFERENT NWC STRINGS.

11 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

I guess we can add an explainer in the short term.

Why do we need two separate stings? XYZ app lets me use just one.

We don't ever store spending permissions on the server. To enable receiving, we need a string without spending permissions for the server. To enable spending, we need one string for that never leaves your browser.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @fishious 23 Dec

Does this mean we need to reenter the nwc connection string for spending if we close our browser without saving cookies and site data? I entered two separate nwc connection strings to SN for sending and receiving respectively and the logs show that the wallet configurations are saved. But when I check some time later the connection string for sending is blank while the connection string for receiving is still intact.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 23 Dec

We don't store spending credentials on the server unless you enabled device sync (which allows us to encrypt and store them).

Without device sync, you need to input spending creds on every device and browser you want to use them on.

view replies

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 23 Dec

It's stored locally so if your browser data gets deleted, it will be gone, yes.

But you can enable device sync in your settings then we will store it encrypted on our server and send it to your other devices if you entered the same passphrase there.

reply on another page

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 19 Dec

cool! when i have a bit more time i'll try it out.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @realBitcoinDog 19 Dec

I’ll be curious for the answer!

22 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

But if Coinos gives you a lightning address, you can use that. It doesn’t matter which receive method you use; we handle them all the same.

44 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner 19 Dec

This is how I have it set up at the moment (LN Address to receive) and it works. I'm asking more out of curiosity. Maybe it doesn't matter if it works with SN, but maybe it does with other platforms. Let's wait for adam's reply. Thanks!

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

Cool, thanks for letting us know it works for you!

I also recently mentioned the UX issues with NWC here, maybe something will come out of it.

44 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

For receiving, you need a different string because we need to store it in plaintext on the server to coordinate payments.

@adam_coinos_io, does Coinos provide separate NWC strings to send and receive?

61 sats \ 1 reply \ @adam_coinos_io 19 Dec

No we don't currently but I can look into adding it

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 19 Dec

that was the icing on the cake. Let us know when you have something ready. thanks!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rizful_com 19 Dec

Correct.

65 sats \ 12 replies \ @SpaceHodler 19 Dec

So this means when someone zaps my post or comment, some of it may be CCs and some of it may be sats?

When I zap others and I have a non-zero CC balance, will SN spend my CCs before it takes zaps from my funding wallet?

And is there a way to remove CCs from the system or will their number only grow, meaning that an ever-increasing percentage of zaps I receive will be CCs?

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

When I zap others and I have a non-zero CC balance, will SN spend my CCs before it takes zaps from my funding wallet?

It will prioritize real sats when zapping and the receiver has a wallet attached. When posting, commenting, boosting, donating, paying for territories, or zapping someone without a receiving wallet, we prioritize CCs.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @PictureRoom 19 Dec

So as long as you have a wallet attached, you will still earn the sats. If you do not have a wallet attached, you will earn CC. Correct? I have my strike wallet attached and has been working great. As long as I keep this in tact, nothing will change, correct? Thank you.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

Yes, your strike lightning address will continue to allow you to receive real sats when people zap you.

20 sats \ 8 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

So this means when someone zaps my post or comment, some of it may be CCs and some of it may be sats?

Yes

When I zap others and I have a non-zero CC balance, will SN spend my CCs before it takes zaps from my funding wallet?

I believe the default is to zap real sats. We had a lot of internal discussion about which order should be the default but it will be easy to provide a setting so you can tell us what your preference is.

And is there a way to remove CCs from the system or will their number only grow, meaning that an ever-increasing percentage of zaps I receive will be CCs?

Every zap has a 30% sybil fee on it (doesn’t matter if CCs or sats) so the half life of a CC is almost exactly two zaps: 100*0.7*0.7=49

This means after two zaps, 51% of a CC went into rewards and territory revenue and rewards and revenue are always paid out in sats.

So this also means if everybody starts sending and receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist. At least that’s my hypothesis.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @astro_penguin 19 Dec

I'm assuming it'll also be possible to select what to use at the time of zapping if you go into the custom amount menu?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 19 Dec

Do you want to choose it per zap or do you just want to express your general preference via settings?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @astro_penguin 19 Dec

The general preference would work, but I had been thinking about scenarios where it would be helpful to have the option to pick in this menu as well.

It might not be something people would use, it was just something I thought of.

33 sats \ 4 replies \ @SpaceHodler 19 Dec

Thanks!

So this also means if everybody starts sending and receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist.

I think this could be shortened to: So this also means if everybody starts ~~sending and~~ receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist. because for a CC to be sent it needs to be received first (in fact, >1.42 CCs need to be received).

And users are incentivized to receive sats, so CCs should die out indeed.

BTW it would be simpler not to introduce CCs at all and if someone doesn't have a receiving wallet attached, they'd receive nothing and the sats would go to SN as a 100% fee.

216 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

So this also means if everybody starts sending and receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist.

As a receiver, you can't control what you will receive. If the sender only has CCs, you will receive CCs. But yes, to have CCs, you need to have received them in some way first 🤔 Nice observation!

edit: mhhh, anybody can buy CCs though. So you can have CCs even without someone else sending you some.

BTW it would be simpler not to introduce CCs at all and if someone doesn't have a receiving wallet attached, they'd receive nothing

Simpler for who? Certainly not for new users who just want to try out SN.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 19 Dec

As a receiver, you can't control what you will receive. If the sender only has CCs, you will receive CCs.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I meant: So this also means if everybody ~~starts receiving real sats~~ attaches an external wallet (so they receive real sats when they're zapped real sats)

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 19 Dec

edit: mhhh, anybody can buy CCs though. So you can have CCs even without someone else sending you some.

Buy from SN or on a secondary market? There is no incentive to buy from SN at 1:1, and when you buy a CC on a secondary market at a discount it doesn't bring a new CC into existence, the CC still must have been created by someone receiving a zap and not having a receiving wallet attached.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec

you can buy from us at 1:1 or ask someone to send you CCs with a 30% fee

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @realBitcoinDog 19 Dec

I read the whole post again! I’m having a great week.

Merry Christmas!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Golu 19 Dec

I thought you already had the same post only to find out that you postponed some switch. Too much ask for me but will try. Thanks

18 sats \ 1 reply \ @theonceler 19 Dec

If I have lightning address set up with desired balance set to 1, will I receive zaps or is this a solution that only works because of the current custodial wallet?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

That will work fine

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @jestopher_ 19 Dec

My lightning address requires a minimum payment of 1000 sats (because it uses swaps). Can I use this as my attached wallet?

It's BancoLibre.com (self custodial) and attaching the lightning address produced an error since it failed the 1sat test invoice check.

68 sats \ 0 replies \ @rizful_com 19 Dec

I recommend you try a NWC back end that is a fully featured Lightning Node. Rizful & Alby Hub will both work.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

The overwhelming majority of zaps are less than 1000 sats.

This switch will introduce a "dust limit" which you can specify at 1000 sats, so we can probably eventually support such an external situation.

17 sats \ 3 replies \ @DesertDave 19 Dec

As a territory founder, if i chose to not link an external wallet, I could just keep cowboy credits earned from zaps and stacker rewards, on the site to send to others and use for fees, zaps, etc. And I could also still receive some real sats from territory rewards that could be withdrawn to a wallet. So territory awards could still be custodial real bitcoin available to withdrawal on lightning? Is that correct? And if that is correct I guess I would have a cowboy credit balance and a Satoshi balance?

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

All correct.

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @DesertDave 19 Dec

Awesome. I think I am finally wrapping my head around what probably isn't that complicated.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

People are definitely overthinking it

24 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 19 Dec

Unrelated, when are you planning on talking about reducing territory prices?

130 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 19 Dec

Probably the next thing I do once I put out the handful of fires that've started.

42 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 18 Dec

If I have an attached wallet, but the lightning node goes offline, what happens when someone tries to zap me or I try to zap someone?

I'd like to be able to configure cowboy credits as a fallback option when wallet is down:

if wallet status is ok:
    zap using wallet
else:
    if CC balance is sufficient:
        zap using CC
    else:
        show payment QR code

I believe the current behavior is more akin to:

if CC balance is sufficient:
    zap using CC
else:
    if wallet status is ok:
        zap using wallet
    else:
        show payment QR code

Of course, by "zap using CC" in the current behavior I'm referring to zap using my SN custodial wallet

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

After Jan 3, it will work exactly how you describe wanting it to work. There might be some tuning required on our end to determine when a node is really down, but our intent is what you describe.

111 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 18 Dec

If your wallet is down, you will receive CCs and send CCs or be shown a QR code if you don't have enough. Does that answer your question?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @astro_penguin 18 Dec freebie

I believe I'm ready!

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @DEADBEEF 18 Dec

For reals this time?

I’m glad I setup Coinos last time. It has been working great!

16 sats \ 2 replies \ @cleaningup12 18 Dec

Thanks for the faq, I've already set coinos as my receiver wallet and sending wallet via nwc, I think.

Incidentally was just looking at the logs and there are a fair few 'WARN' wallet does not support mSATS

26 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

If you’re okay with donating fractions of a sat to us, you can safely ignore.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @cleaningup12 18 Dec

You definitely deserve it koob, you work hard enough

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @cascdr 18 Dec

Sats should rebrand to Cowboy Credits

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

Bitcoin should rebrand to Stacker News.

34 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 18 Dec

Dumb question which may have been answered previously. What if someone tries to game the system by only connecting a receive wallet? Will they zap cc's and receive real bitcoin?

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 18 Dec

They can’t zap CCs if they don’t receive or buy any

97 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

Yes, but we plan to give more rewards to zappers of real sats.

38 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 18 Dec

No way to affirmatively punish this slimy activity?

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

It might not be slimy is the problem. Maybe they only have WoS or something.

Besides, most stackers will end up spending their CCs fast on posts/comments/boost/territories/donations

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 18 Dec

Is there a reason this post is pinned twice (#2 and bottom of screenshot)? https://i.imgur.com/AUwoFHI.png

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

regression! Thanks

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bitter 18 Dec

Will SN ever offer a custodial lightning wallet again?

Ever thought on integrating a cashu.me wallet?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

What's cashu? Cash University? (I'm kidding. Yes, we plan to add ecash wallets. :))

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitter 18 Dec

iris.to is simply iframing it ;)

167 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 18 Dec

I think we can do better

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Dec

Partner with ZBD would be awesome!

@StackerSports will you accept cowboy credit like Calgary stampede?

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @StackerSports 18 Dec

Yee haw. Wonder if we will need a sats pool and a cowboy credit pool.

58 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

We hope to do it assuming we can segregate the data collection, surveillance, payment limits, geofencing, etc from the rest of the app.

We just want to be non-custodial-first.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Skipper 18 Dec

What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

16 sats \ 1 reply \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 18 Dec

When looking at a post, will the zaps and cowboy credits given to it be combined into one number in the top line (so "200 sats \ 1 reply \ @ username")? Or will they be separated?

115 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 18 Dec

They will be combined into one number. You can get the breakdown on hover or by clicking on ... > details. Your zap notifications will, without hover or clicking, say "your item stacked 1,000 sats and 400 CCs".

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cyphercosmo 18 Dec

Can you please explain the technical solution?

I understand currently the wallets are generated and kept by SN, this comes at a risk and responsibilities, so I believe it's changing so that the only sats SN receives are for payment of its services, everything else will be automatically routed between user's wallets.