(Spanish at the end / Español al final)
I have been a libertarian/anarchist for 20 years, and I have been in the bitcoin space for a few years, having recognized it as the only solution to the very serious problem of freedoms that afflicts humanity. I have worked collecting my salary only in Bitcoin. Surely you don't know many people who can say that? So is my level of conviction in Bitcoin.
But in the last few months I am suffering a crisis of faith. Of faith in humanity, or perhaps in bitcoiners themselves. These are the things that are happening that are disturbing me and making me lose sleep:
The "stack sats". It is true that I am starting to read some discordant "spend your bitcoins and then reload your stack again" type voice, but it is 2023 and the mainstream voices are still recommending to accumulate and accumulate, inciting others not to spend their bitcoin and save them. After all, your BTC will be trading in a few months or years at hundreds or millions of thousands of euros, right? How is Bitcoin adoption supposed to increase and businesses supposed to survive if no one spends their Bitcoin?
It's amazing to see how when a Venture Capitalist says something bad about bitcoin is that he is scamming people, but when he says something wild along the lines of "BTC will be worth 1 million in 3 months", we start drooling over the scammer....
We like to think that 99% of humanity is absolutely moronic, but as bitcoiners who have seen the light, we are better than the rest. We don't realize that we are "people" too. When someone says "Ethirium to the moon" we think they are a scammer or an asshole, but if they say the same thing about bitcoin.... "what does he know that I don't?".
I keep hearing that Bitcoin is inevitable. I'm sorry, but it is NOT. Do you think email would have been an information exchange system for over 40 years if they hadn't invested in spam control systems 20 years ago? Do you think anything goes if the fees are paid? A few days ago someone told me on a Telegram channel that "Bitcoin will be whatever people want it to be, and it's not money anymore, it's now a decentralized database because people wanted it to be". Sorry, but I agree with "Unhosted Marcellus": we need decentralized digital money, not "whatever the people want it to be", because people are assholes.
Lately I pretty much agree with several of @bitcoinerrorlog's positions. We need to stop recommending people use apps that custody our bitcoins, because THAT IS NOT BITCOIN. Let's stop recommending Wallet of Satoshi and other "custodial" wallets like Alby. Never mind that they "work better" for newbies. For that we could use my bank's transfer app or PayPal, which work quite well.... right? Neither that, but also not recommending to a newbie to set up his own node. Let's start recommending Phoenix, Blixt or Bitkit, or any other self-custodial wallet that really supports Bitcoin and Lightning.
What to say about the 2 major bitcoin remixing projects, Wasabi and Samourai? The drama continues to escalate and even today I read some threatening others, and the others revealing the identity of one of the ones. Anyway, what a clown show... If you want to remix your bitcoin and still don't know how to use Joinmarket/JAM, ask me and I'll help you get started. Let's send the Chainanalysis and the "we need to have your XPUB" folks back to where they should never have come from.
"Well, but at least we can rely on the good decisions of the Core developers, who keep making Bitcoin evolve, right?". Have you read them lately? The worst one might be the "I had my bitcoin seed on an online server, they stole my bitcoins, but I did nothing wrong", but there are a few more out there saying incoherent wild things. Where do they get these people from? Well, these people are the ones inventing things like Segwit and Taproot that can't be criticized because they "move bitcoin forward". It has advanced so much, that we can now store pictures of monkeys and audios of farts on the blockchain. Goooood!!!!!
Another thing I often hear is that states will not be able to attack bitcoin, or that they have already done so but to no avail. Sorry, but it is NOT true that they have done all they can. In my opinion they have only just started, and of course the worst is yet to come, including a 6102 for real. On Twitter we are all very cool and very smart, and we all like to shit-post and make fun of the New York Times and Cristine Lagarde or Carstens, and send everyone to HFSP. But when the real state comes knocking, it's not going to be pretty. Do you think that a machina capable of sending tens of billions of dollars in weapons halfway around the world, killing millions of people, hurting and impoverishing hundreds of millions, destroying complete countries, is only going to make a few statements in newspapers as to how polluting Bitcoin is? Do you think taking down FTX or Binance is going to be the most they're going to be able to do? Do you think when the going gets tough you're going to be able to buy Wallmart coupons in Bitrefill? Do you think people who think killing half a million Iraqi children was worth it, are going to stop because "I have my own node"? You might need someone to recommend a couple of books on modern history.... We need to guard our own bitcoin and make payments MUCH MORE private than they are now, and we need it for yesterday.
I understand people who want the current system to fall. I myself have spoken out in that sense on many occasions. We must put an end to this scam that some call "democratic system", and where there is not a single thing that is fair or works well. But beware of thinking "I hope it all goes to shit, I am protected, I have bitcoin". Okay, you have your bitcoin, but what or where are you going to use them for? When things get ugly with CBDC or when the different versions of the panopticons they have in store for us come into operation, where are you going to buy food and where are you going to get accommodation?
These last few weeks I have been cleaning up the Madrid region (about 6 million people) of BTCMap and literally 100% of the businesses I have checked no longer accept bitcoin. We literally have 4 restaurants that accept bitcoin. Two of them belong to the same owner and also promote Agenda 2030, and another one accepts bitcoin, but only "when the boss is around, because the wallet is on his phone". Let me be a bit skeptical when I read about "we're winning".
Meanwhile, the important people in the Bitcoin ecosystem go from conference to conference and party to party... including conferences with "Bitcoin" in the name but promoting all sorts of shitcoins. By the way, when do these people work?
They were telling me a few days ago that the fall of the current system and the triumph of Bitcoin "we won't see it, because it will happen in 50 or 70 years from now". It reminds me of when I used to go to Libertarian Party meetings and they said that their goal was to "go from 6,000 to 10,000 votes in the next few years", and when you asked them "and what's that for?" they said it was a long-distance race.... So okay, "Bitcoin has already won", but only "we'll see it in 70 years". Ok, perfect. What's the point of that?
If we want Bitcoin to be a reality 10, 20 or 40 years from now, we need to be a hell of a lot more critical today. Critical of the developers and the companies that build products. Critical of the influencers who go from conference to conference. And much more critical and realistic with ourselves.
The war is not won yet.
================== Spanish from here ==================
Soy libertario/anarquista desde hace 20 años, y llevo unos cuantos años en el espacio bitcoin habiendolo reconocido como única solución al gravísimo problema de libertades que aqueja a la humanidad. He trabajado cobrando mi sueldo únicamente en Bitcoin. Seguro que no conoces a mucha gente que pueda decir eso... Así es mi nivel de convicción en Bitcoin.
Pero en los últimos meses estoy sufriendo una crisis de fe. De fe en la humanidad, o quizá en los propios bitcoineros. Estas son las cosas que están ocurriendo y que me están perturbando y haciendo que pierda el sueño:
El "stack sats". Es verdad que empiezo a leer algúna voz discordante de tipo "gasta tus bitcoins y luego recarga tu stack de nuevo", pero estamos en 2023 y las voces principales siguen recomendando acumular y acumular, incitando a otros a que no gasten sus bitcoin y los ahorren. Después de todo tus BTC cotizarán dentro de unos meses o años a cientos o millones de miles de euros, ¿verdad? ¿Cómo se supone que va a aumentar la adopción de Bitcoin y las empresas van a sobrevivir si nadie gasta sus Bitcoin?
Es asombroso ver como cuando un Venture Capitalist dice algo malo de bitcoin es que está estafando a la gente, pero cuando dice una salvajada del estilo "BTC valdrá 1 millón en 3 meses", empezamos a babear con el estafador...
Nos gusta pensar que el 99% de la humanidad es absolutamente imbécil, pero como bitcoiners que hemos visto la luz, nosotros somos mejores que el resto. No nos damos cuenta de que nosotros también somos "gente". Cuando alguien dice "Ethirium to the moon" pensamos que es un estafador o un gilipollas, pero si dicen lo mismo de Bitcoin... "¿qué sabrá él que no sepa yo?".
No paro de oir que Bitcoin es inevitable. Lo siento, pero NO lo es. ¿Crees que el email habría sido un sistema de intercambio de información durante más de 40 años si no se hubiese invertido en sistemas de control de spam hace 20? ¿Crees que cualquier cosa vale si se pagan las comisiones? Hace unos días alguien me dijo en un canal de Telegram que "Bitcoin será lo que la gente quiera que sea, y ya no es dinero, ahora es una base de datos descentralizada porque la gente así lo ha querido". Lo siento, pero coincido con "Unhosted Marcellus": necesitamos dinero digital descentralizado, no "lo que la gente quiera", porque la gente es gilipollas.
Últimamente estoy bastante de acuerdo con varias de las posiciones de @bitcoinerrorlog. Tenemos que dejar de recomendar a la gente que use aplicaciones que custodian nuestros bitcoins, porque ESO NO ES BITCOIN. Vamos a dejar de recomendar Wallet of Satoshi y otras wallets "custodial" como Alby. No importa que "funcionen mejor" para novatos. Para eso podríamos usar la app de transferencias de mi banco o PayPal, que funcionan bastante bien... ¿no? Ni eso, ni recomendar a un novato montar su nodo. Vamos a empezar a recomendar Phoenix, Blixt o Bitkit, o cualquier otra wallet de auto-custodia y que soporte realmente Bitcoin y Lightning.
¿Qué decir de los 2 proyectos mayoritarios de remezclado de bitcoin, Wasabi y Samourai? El drama sigue en aumento e incluso hoy he leído a unos amenazando a otros, y a los otros revelando la identidad de uno de ellos. En fin, vaya espectáculo... Si quieres remezclar tus bitcoin y aún no sabes como usar Joinmarket/JAM, pregúntame y te ayudaré a empezar. Vamos a mandar a los amigos de Chainanalysis y a los de "necesitamos tener tu XPUB" al sitio de donde nunca debieron salir.
"Bueno, pero al menos podemos confiar en las buenas decisiones de los desarrolladores de Core, que siguen haciendo que Bitcoin evolucione, ¿verdad?". ¿Tú les has leído últimamente? El peor podría ser el de "tenía la semilla de mis bitcoin en un servidor online, me han robado mis bitcoins", pero hay unos cuantos más por ahí diciendo salvajadas incoherentes. ¿Pero de donde sacan a esta gente? Pues esta gente es la que inventa cosas como Segwit y Taproot que no se pueden criticar porque "hacen que bitcoin avance". Ha avanzado tanto, que ahora podemos guardar fotos de monos y audios de pedos en la blockchain. ¡¡¡Bieeeeen!!!
Otra cosa que escucho a menudo es que los estados no podrán atacar a Bitcoin, o que ya lo han hecho pero no han conseguido nada. Lo siento, pero NO es cierto que hayan hecho todo lo posible. En mi opinión solamente acaban de empezar, y por supuesto que lo peor está por llegar, incluyendo un 6102 de verdad. En Twitter todos somos muy guays y muy listos, y a todos nos gusta hacer shit-posting y reirnos del New York Times y de Cristine Lagarde o de Carstens, y mandar a todo el mundo a HFSP. Pero cuando el Estado de verdad llame a la puerta, no va a ser bonito. ¿Crees que una maquinaria capaz de mandar decenas de miles de millones de dolares en armas al otro lado del mundo, matar a millones de personas, herir y empobrecer a cientos de millones, y destruyendo países enteros, solamente va a hacer unas cuantas declaraciones en periódicos con lo contaminante que es Bitcoin? ¿Crees que cargarse FTX o Binance va a ser lo más que van a poder hacer? ¿Crees que cuando la cosa se ponga fea vas a poder comprar cheques del Carrefour en Bitrefill? ¿Crees que gente que cree que matar medio millón de niños iraquíes mereció la pena se va a entristecer porque tú les pongas un HFSP en Twitter? Puede que necesites que alguien te recomiende un par de libros de historia moderna... Necesitamos custodiar nuestros propios bitcoin y hacer que los pagos sean MUCHO MÁS privados de lo que son ahora, y lo necesitamos para ayer.
Entiendo a la gente que quiera que el sistema actual caiga. Yo mismo me he manifestado en ese sentido en muchas ocasiones. Hay que acabar con esta estafa que algunos llaman "sistema democrático", y donde no hay ni una sola cosa que sea justa o funcione bien. Pero ojo con pensar "Ojalá se vaya todo a la mierda, yo estoy protegido, tengo bitcoin". Vale, tienes tus bitcoin, ¿pero para qué o donde los vas a usar? Cuando la cosa se ponga fea con las CBDC o entren en funcionamiento las distintas versions de los panópticos que nos tienen preparados, ¿donde vas a comprar la comida y donde conseguirás alojamiento?
Estas últimas semanas he estado haciendo limpieza a la región de Madrid (unos 6 millones de habitantes) de BTCMap y literalmente el 100% de las empresas que he revisado ya no aceptan Bitcoin. Tenemos literalmente 4 restaurantes que aceptan bitcoin. Dos de ellos pertenecen al mismo dueño y promocionan también la Agenda 2030, y otro acepta bitcoin, pero solamente "cuando el jefe está por ahí, porque la wallet está en su teléfono". Permíteme que me muestre un poco escéptico cuando lea lo del "we're winning".
Mientras tanto, la gente importante del ecosistema Bitcoin va de conferencia en conferencia y de fiesta en fiesta... incluyendo conferencias con el nombre Bitcoin pero que promocionan toda clase de mierdo-monedas. Por cierto, ¿esta gente cuando trabaja?
Me decían hace unos días que la caída del sistema actual y el triunfo de Bitcoin "no lo veremos nosotros, porque ocurrirá dentro de 50 o 70 años. Me recuerda a cuando iba a las reuniones del Partido Libertario y decían que su objetivo era "pasar de 6.000 a 10.000 votos en los próximos años", y cuando les preguntabas "¿y eso para que sirve?" decían que era una carrera de fondo... Así que bueno, "Bitcoin ya ha ganado", pero solamente "lo veremos dentro de 70 años". Ok, perfecto. ¿Y eso para qué sirve?
Si queremos que Bitcoin sea una realidad dentro de 10, 20 o 40 años, tenemos que ser muchísimo más críticos en la actualidad. Críticos con los desarrolladores y las empresas que construyen productos. Críticos con los influencers que van de conferencia en conferencia sentándo cátedra. Y muchísimo más críticos y realistas con nosotros mismos.
La guerra no está ganada.
fantastic post. Resonated with me.
Tl; Dr - too much Larping, not enough Bitcoining.
Hodl < Hodl, spend and replace more.
Centralised on ramps suck.
I shill WoS all the time for my videos and content. I use the excuse that for noobies it’s a great in ramp. im gonna make an active effort to shill Phoenix.
Ps I love that carrefour translates to Walmart in your mind 😃
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Never tried Phoenix, but they say it's good.
Blixt also is very interesting and Bitkit seems very promising.
Thanks for your comment. Good to know I'm not the only one who thinks that way about the LARPing.
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BitKit works like shit.
No offense John.
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agree. Let's give them some time. will try again in half a year
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Yeah, they've asked for a little patience. I guess doing a full non-custodial wallet that is easy to use is not easy...
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I also think mobile apps need to use native comps, or the UX is just horrible. but let's see what they can build
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I think BitKit user interface is beautiful compared to other wallets. Don't you think so?
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it's nice, but it's a bit unresposive
and it had a few crashes.
I want to try it again later.
IMO, Phoenix wins the UX/UI nonetheless. Very clean and simple. not too much going on.
It just crashes after the app is open for more than 10 seconds. I've reported the issue half a year ago and others have the same problem
you cant complain yourself into the future
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Watch me
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Welcome to your first bear market. Sorry bitcoin didn't live up to your expectations, see you next cycle.
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You're very wrong. I don't even mention the price a single time in my text...
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You think that makes a difference that you didn't say price? Yeah welcome to first bear.
Imagine "being an anarchist for 20 years", only getting involved in bitcoin for a "few years" to ride the $60k top and then all cry baby whiney that we arent getting the adoption you wanted.
It's surreal that this kind of garbage makes it to the top of SN.
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I don't know why you're so aggresive with someone you don't know a shit, but honestly, idgaf about you. I'm sure it doesn't give a good PR to your Mutiny wallet... so it's up to you.
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A throwaway account with one post that just came here for attention. Cry harder and do something about your situation "anarchist"
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I'm not crying.
When are we going to see a release of Mutiny? Is the development slow because you're here trying to make fun of other people?
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Defensive af lol
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Ignore Tony, he's a little bitch.
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Come to pull a Roger Ver on me again?
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How's it going at Impervious?
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No idea, not there. You might want to ask them yourself since you care so much about them and what they do.
Maybe worry about your own company? #155848
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Why'd you leave? Defending their lack of open licensing seemed so important to you.
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Lol, learn to read idiot 😂😂😂
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thats a pure shitcoin vibe right there bro
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I know exactly how you're feeling.
About a year ago, the fusion of Bitcoin maximalism and anarchism was my religion. A secular religion but a religion nonetheless. I had regarded myself an atheist but Liberty and Bitcoin were my gods. I legitimately thought Bitcoin was going to save the world and usher us into an anarcho-capitalist decentralized world. This became extremely apparent after I became a Christian.
I believe that many people in this space are the exact same way. Bitcoin is inevitable! Bitcoin has already won! Bitcoin will bring in a golden age of humanity! They don't realize that they are in a secular religion. Some of us then look around at the reality of the situation. Bitcoin adoption is not surging like people have been predicting over and over again. Businesses adopt Bitcoin during bull markets and drop it in bear markets. People are using the base chain of our monetary system as a database/marketplace of useless jpegs. The sober, realistic pieces are saying that it will take three or more generations before we have a user base that rivals fiat currencies (I agree).
This is going to cause cognitive dissonance and loss of faith.
I am a "Bitcoin maxi" only because I think Bitcoin's the best tool for the job of hard money in a digital world. And Bitcoin is only that: a tool. It won't save the world. It won't usher in an anarchic/libertarian world. And it is definitely not inevitable.
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I think the fanboys expectations are so ridiculous that it undermines the actual accomplishments.
At the end of the day, we have to remember that Bitcoin is a FOSS project with a gigantic scope. For a FOSS project of this scope it's doing alright.
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Some of us then look around at the reality of the situation. Bitcoin adoption is not surging like people have been predicting over and over again. Businesses adopt Bitcoin during bull markets and drop it in bear markets. People are using the base chain of our monetary system as a database/marketplace of useless jpegs. The sober, realistic pieces are saying that it will take three or more generations before we have a user base that rivals fiat currencies
Yeah, totally agree, man. It's not good, but it is what it is...
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I share many of your concerns.
But I'm not losing my faith. And I encourage you to not either. The war is not won, and winning depends on our stubbornness. It is up to us to face the challenge and make things happen.
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BIP 324 might help with some of your concerns
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I think that having BIP 324 is VERY GOOD thing to have, but my complains are more about bitcoiners than about bitcoin itself, and I think no technology can fix that...
Thank you!
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To be fair, many bitcoiners are bitcoiners in name only. coming to this realization is a loss of innocence that takes time and mourning.
Bitcoin doesn't fix human nature. But it can help save some of us who are worth saving. Being worthy of Bitcoin is hard.
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Bitcoin doesn't fix human nature. But it can help save some of us who are worth saving
You're right. Thanks.
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Imagine describing yourself as "an anarchist for 20 years" and then complaining about ANY other group, let alone Bitcoiners. You're a fucking faggot, dude -- you're essentially a tranny.
More. Of. This. Please.
This is the true spirit of the bitcoin community.
We need critical thinking and opposing viewpoints. The echo chamber is real. The blind spots are real.
Guys - bitcoin is going to face off against **The Most Powerful Government / Military In The World ™ **. That’s unprecedented. That’s not going to be pretty.
AND
As bitcoin is adopted, hacking is going to be increasingly incentivized. If everyone has a hot wallet, then a successful hack or phish is an instant irreversible monetary reward. That’s unprecedented. That’s not going to be pretty.
If bitcoin wins, it’s not going to go well for A LOT OF PEOPLE.
There’s serious potential if not certainty for mass social unrest.
It’s possible to be a bitcoin sheep. Don’t be.
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That being said, a few quick thoughts:
It’s less important that lightning is non-custodial since you can withdraw to the blockchain almost instantly, and if you deal in small amounts. That being said, it’d be great if non-custodial wallets could implement something like an LNURL. That’d make lightning self custody instantly more scalable. It’s a problem that needs to be solved.
Bitcoin still beats the US Gov in the end, and if it takes 70+ years, I’ll still be proud to have been a part of it.
It comes down to the fact that it’s a finite, scalable, immutable store of value, and the bitcoin network is global. It’s here to stay, which means in the end, it wins.
The 200 WMA says a lot, and so does the hash rate over time.
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It's a messy, organic process - and this incremental progress comes with a lot of failures, problems and pain.
There is no shortcut through all of this when people must make a voluntary decision to act at a worldwide level, to an individual degree - it's both an immense transformation, and a simple choice. Patience, for me, has been the real test, rather than faith, and i have internally struggled as you seem to be currently on your terms in your own journey.
Some of your points are valid - i don't have any answers to 'what to do' about speculators, scammers, or the venality of the state, in any jurisdiction of the world - i can only continue to make MY decisions, and pursue the path of that transformation to the best of my ability, in the understanding that i am not alone in that position - honestly, if i look at the wider situation in the world, what else is there ?
Your username is remnant, you claim to anarchism/voluntaryism - it goes with the territory to be the intolerant minority and know this whole thing, it's not about making a quick buck, it's not a game; it's about changing things, by being the change - however hackneyed that phrase may be, it's the only way, and the fact that a lot of people can't/won't see it at any given moment is one more ugly fact to be dealt with.
Take heart, we ARE a minority; not just in the world, but even in Bitcoin space - i am utterly disinterested in traders, speculators, and shills, and fully anticipate the state inflicting itself ever more viciously as it begins to thrash to preserve it's position over the rest of us - some of the 'toxic' amongst us have warned for years about everything you mention, even as most ignore, or even deride them - so thankful that i had the instinct and un-common sense to heed their overwhelmingly correct assertions .
You're right - expect more ugliness, call out the fakers, speak the bald truth, lead by example.
It was never going to be easy.
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I agree on everything you wrote. It's just that sometimes I lost my patience while I see things going worst each day and reading "stack sats!!! we'll all be millionaires!!!". But yes, you're right.
You're right - expect more ugliness, call out the fakers, speak the bald truth, lead by example.
You're right. I guess that's why some people are turning more and more toxic...
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lead by example.
this is the most important part.
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NGL, it's probs gonna be a multi-decade slog. There will be regular setbacks, but we will have occasional victories.
The economics favors bitcoin. The fiat freaks cannot stop printing. Hopefully we can keep the faith and hang in there and do Satoshis work.
One thing I just started doing recently: Requiring my friends pay me and pay me back in bitcoin and I do the same to them. We need to insist that we use bitcoin with fam and friends. Get that circular economy going, as small as it may be.
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thats the way dear fellow.
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Great post that hit home for me. Larping (live-action role-playing) dominates the crypto world, but we need more focus on Bitcoining. Spending and replacing instead of just hodling is important. Centralized on ramps aren't ideal, so we should promote decentralized options like Phoenix.
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Agreed 🤝
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I agree with both of you, yeah.
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It was about time for someone to call out the harsh truth of businesses accepting bitcoin - its next to nothing. Tesla accepting it feels like lifetime ago.
Another note is LN wallets. I would like to take this opportunity to ask, why isn't Phoenix the go to wallet? Why does the community shill other wallets when Phoenix is a clear winner when it comes to non-custodial easy-to-onboard wallet?
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Thanks. Yeah, you really cannot spend your bitcoins...
About Phoenix, what pull me down when I tried was the initial setup. So you open the app and the first thing you see is "we'll take xxxx sats on fees". So maybe they should communicate this better:
"You'll pay some fees in advance, but then you'll use your own channels and save on fees wrt other wallets", or something like that.
Anyways I want to try it again.
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I'm new to LN, why Phoenix over other wallets?, first time I heard of Phoenix so the problem it is not shilled enough.
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It depends on where the person is that you're onboarding. If they're absolutely new then going into seed backup + 3,000 sats fees per few receives can very easily get in the way.
The point of onboarding is just getting them into the ecosystem, understanding this new unit of account and new paradigm of sending/receiving via lightning/onchain.
Next steps can then be self-custody (by sternly reinforcing "not your keys, not your coins"), but the familiarity of being able to access funds via email with Wallet of Satoshi is a stickier first step from my experience.
It's something I had to consider for example, for onboarding events like these: https://galoy.io/pop-up-event-playbook/
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I guess that with wallets and with a small amount of money it's not the same, but we also said to the people "start with FTX, then you'll learn how to use your own node" :)
But yes, I 100% understand what you mean.
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Yeah, you also get inbound liquidity in the same amount. I'm not sure about other wallets (that actually open a channel), but inbound liquidity is one of the most important aspects of using LN. In general, you pay more (than Phoenix fee) for services that provide inbound liquidity, so that should be considered as a feature, not an issue.
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What you're looking for, that early days spirit of bitcoin, that disrupt things, control your own money, transact privately, and use it as money and a tool for freedom, not a speculative instrument... that ethos you're looking for now lives within Monero.
Join the revolution, find me on Twitter @donttracemebruh
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Monero can’t scale 😬
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An average monero tx is 2.5 kilobytes, and has dynamic block sizes that expand during periods of high volume of txs and then contract again. Nodes can be pruned to 1/3 of the full size.
The largest single possible bitcoin transaction is 4 megabytes which takes up an entire block and includes a jpeg which is stored on full nodes and has to be verified by all users.
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The problem (at least w.r.t. scaling) is not the size of the historical chain, it's the size of the state, which must be maintained in order to prevent double spending.
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Bitcoin scaling is a problem as well. Lightning is becoming worse with the network growing, it seems to me.
Not saying Monero can scale well, but Bitcoin has the same issue so I would not see that as a problem.
If we can figure out scaling for Bitcoin, maybe it will work for Monero too.
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Tipped 1000 sats for the effort and thoughtfulness.
I don't think anyone that has been serious about Bitcoin hasn't gone from being all but certain in its inevitability to seriously questioning if they totally fucked up and have been misled by groupthink by people who have strong incentives to self-deceive.
I'm so far into it I cannot be objective which is different from saying my projections (really just opinions of others) about Bitcoin's success can't be directionally accurate. There are certainly many ways that this could play out.
My main focus for a few years has been to get as many people close to me to DCA and withdraw it from exchanges whether they understand much about Bitcoin or not. Maybe I need to do more but your list of challenges is daunting.
Thank you for your contribution as it is getting me to confront the fact I have got too complacent.
I'll be interested to hear other takes on this post.
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Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you for your contribution as it is getting me to confront the fact I have got too complacent. I'll be interested to hear other takes on this post.
Yeah, that was 2 of the reasons to publish my text. I'm glad it removed something around there...
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Spanish at the end // Español al final
I agree with much of what is being said and I can relate as I have been receiving income in Bitcoin for quite some time. However:
  • "People have to spend their bitcoins, otherwise there won't be adoption." I am a big fan of the circular economy and that's why I have helped organize the Friday beers at Do Eat, but even I wouldn't be so categorical. There is a learning curve and Lightning is not perfect, people don't spend/accept BTC due to volatility, and adoption doesn't "grow" because there are not enough places to spend them ♻️. The reality is that people like Jack Mallers and Dorsey are pushing for adoption, and it's debatable whether it's better to incentivize hodling first and then spending, instead of the other way around. In fact, look at the discussion between Dan Held and Flix when they talk about this topic. https://twitter.com/danheld/status/1605567769767948288?s=46&t=dx8fZHlBfgVA-85g_j7CCg
Both points seem valid to me.
  • When a venture capitalist says something negative about Bitcoin, does that make them a scammer? I'm not sure if it's that simple, or at least I'm not aware of the case being referred to. There is the case of Taleb, who was publicly very pro-Bitcoin and then turned against it, valuing BTC at 0 due to cash flow. What is true is that the community can be very aggressive and resistant to change, as Vitalik pointed out in an article last year, but I think this is actually positive for the system that Bitcoin proposes. In this case, it refers to Balaji's bet, and I understand that the explanation behind it may not have been seen, the $1 million was simply a marketing strategy to draw attention and highlight his thesis. I wouldn't compare criticisms (many of which may be false) to people like Balaji, Chamath, Saylor, Cathie Wood, or even Elon, who are making long-term bets and at the very least, "putting their money where their mouth is."
  • I totally agree that Bitcoin is not inevitable. Are we going to stop recommending custodial wallets? Okay! I'm a big fan of that. But the truth is that non-custodial wallets have more issues and limitations currently, and I don't think it's bad to custody 20 euros that allow a newbie to use Lightning in 10 seconds, as long as it's clear what they are. The key is scalability for micropayments, even though we need to keep pushing for non-custodial wallets.
  • I don't buy the argument that they are constantly attending conferences. Most of the Bitcoin OGs no longer appear at conferences. In fact, they don't appear in public at all and only speak in private forums (Wenzes, Antonopoulos, Todd, Szabo...).
  • I agree with the issues of privacy and governments attacks
  • It’s mentioned that in Madrid only 2 places are left, (I can confirm that in Do eat and Voraz they still work every week) would like to know if he is referring to those two.
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Muy de acuerdo con mucho de lo que dice y me siento identificado ya que yo recibo ingresos en Bitcoin desde hace bastante tiempo. Pero:
  • “La gente tiene que gastar sus bitcoins sino no habrá adopción”.
Muy fan en que la economía circular es fundamental y de ahí que haya ayudado organizar todos los viernes las cervezas en Do Eat pero ni incluso yo sería tan contundente… hay una curva de aprendizaje y Lightning no es perfecto, la gente no gasta/acepta btc por la volatilidad y la adopción no “crece” porque no hay sitios donde gastarlos ♻️. La realidad es que gente como Jack Mallers y Dorsey están empujando mucho la adopción y es muy discutible si primero se debería incentivar a holdear para luego gastar en vez de lo segundo directamente. De hecho mira la discusión Dan held a Flix cuando hablan este tema https://twitter.com/danheld/status/1605567769767948288?s=46&t=dx8fZHlBfgVA-85g_j7CCg
Me parecen válidos ambos puntos.
  • Cuando un VC dice algo malo de Bitcoin es un estafador? Nose si esto es tan asi, o por lo menos no conozco el caso al que se refiere. Está el caso de Taleb quien era públicamente muy pro y derrepente se puso en contra cuando valoro BTC en 0 por el cash flow. Lo que si es verdad es que la comunidad es muy agresiva y reacia al cambio como bien dice Vitalik en el artículo del año pasado y creo que es algo positivo para el sistema que propone. Aquí se refiere a la apuesta de Balaji y entiendo que no ha visto la explicación que hay detrás y que lo de 1 millón era simplemente una estrategia de marketing para llamar la Atencion/sonar la alarma y así exponer su tesis. No compararía críticas (muchas de ellas falsas) a gente como Balaji,chamath, Saylor, Cathie wood o incluso Elon quienes apuestan a largo plazo y como mínimo “they put their money where their mouth is.”
  • Totalmente de acuerdo con que Bitcoin no es inevitable. Vamos a dejar de recomendar wallets custodios? Ok! Soy el más fan. Pero es que los wallets no custodios dan más problemas y tienen más limites hoy por hoy, no creo que custodiar 20 euros que permiten a un “newbie” usar Lightning en 10 segundos sea malo mientras dejen claro lo que son. La clave está en la escalabilidad para micropagos aunque haya que seguir empujando los no custodios.
  • Lo de que van de conferencia en conferencia no se lo compro, la mayoría de Bitcoin OGs ya no aparecen en las conferencias. De hecho no aparecen en nada público y solo hablan por foros privados. (Wenzes, Antonopoulos, Todd, Szabo…)
    • Del tema privacidad y ataques de gobiernos estoy de acuerdo.
    • Dice que en Madrid sólo hay 2 sitios que sigan aceptando, vivo en madrid y puedo confirmar que en Do eat y Voraz siguen funcionando todas las semanas… alguno más habrá. (Me gustaría saber si esos son los que ha probado)
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You made some good points. Thank You for that. I think that Bitcoin will be being attributed as 'store of value' during the phase of Fiat-decline. Narratives to a complete different ecosystem, reserve currency and settlement layer will occur when there is need for during the last phase of Fiat-distruction. It will take years...
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I hope we have a place where to buy the eggs and the meat when everything goes bad...
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Same bro. I need to go take another shot at orange pilling my farmers market.
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I am living in Málaga - absolute LN/BTC desert... but I am fighting and promoting it to anybody. This year I saved 3 people here. When they are pilled they are fighting with mediterranean passion
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We are running a Bitcoin only meetup in Malaga on a monthly basis. You're welcome to join anytime! https://malaga2140.xyz/
What do you mean by "saved 3 people"? Orangepilled?
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Yes, orangepilled. Thanks for the info. I will show up at the meeting for sure. Necesito bitcoiners en mi vida social... saludos
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Yes this is the earliest days
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Bitcoin is reality today.
Bitcoin will change over time, with or without you.
If Bitcoin doesn’t match up with your vision of what you think Bitcoin should be, either:
A) change your frame of mind, or
B) build something that enables your vision to become reality
Always remember, a calm mind is the ultimate weapon against any challenge.
En español:
Bitcoin es una realidad hoy en día.
Bitcoin cambiará con el tiempo, con o sin usted.
Si Bitcoin no coincide con su visión de lo que cree que debería ser Bitcoin:
A) cambie su estado de ánimo o
B) construye algo que permita que tu visión se convierta en realidad
Recuerda siempre, una mente tranquila es el arma definitiva contra cualquier desafío.
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Gracias por tu mensaje, y muy buenos consejos.
Es complicado hacer que bitcoin o los bitcoiners cambien, pero es más fácil cambiar uno mismo.
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Exactly! Believe me, I share your frustration my friend.
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100% my friend… there are many LARPERS
Living the bitcoin standard takes real conviction
For some, I believe it will come with time as fiat gets further devalued, CBDC’s are clearly shown to abuse their freedoms and people start to put their money where their mouth is
For others it will come through necessity as their National fiat gets hyper inflated ahead of the USD global reserve
How many countries have leaders who haven’t been infiltrated by the WEF or are as enlightened as El Salvador’s Bukelle?
I have faith the turn will come from countries who are breaking from USD hegemony… I also believe in the schelling point… and the US may even realise they are better off trying to lead its adoption ahead of the BRICS nations
All we can do is continue to build and make it as easy as possible for those with strength of conviction or with enlightened leadership
The LARPers are going to larp till it’s handed to them on a plate.
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Ooh, I feel like I'd like to reply to some of the points on that post and/or re-enforce:
  • mainstream Bitcoiners advocating for hodl, don't spend: it's interesting because I think there are different mainstream influencers... Traders tell you to trade, crypto/investors tell you to invest but I feel like the people on lightning are on board with the spend and replace thing. I don't think either are more mainstream than the other, rather they target their niches. I'm bullish on benbtc reaching more normies and hopeful for more of that.
  • I agree that we shouldn't recommend custodial bitcoin wallets, however I do see the appeal for lightning addresses and social fund raising that requires an always on server.
I wanted to offer someone time to install phoenix wallet in their own time and I'm experimenting with the reverse: give them a lnbits URL with a lnurlw link and they can claim it in their own time.
Re: developers, it's definitely clown world. I was talking to people in the bitcoinology meetup about this. Devs get in by project but then get to stay in the club and get funded even if they're not productive. Also there's tonnes of drama.
overall, great read.
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I agree that we shouldn't recommend custodial bitcoin wallets, however I do see the appeal for lightning addresses and social fund raising that requires an always on server.
There is a post about custodial on the fron page rn: #165856 😇
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Yeah... for VERY small amounts, I agree there is no problem. For example, I get that the wallet here at SN is custodial, but as soon as it reaches X amount of sats, they should tell you "hey, it would be good if you take all this money to your custody".
Probably they won't tell you, because the business in all the people moving money from post to other post, but anyways...
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for VERY small amounts
Money is relative, right? Maybe you're thinking 1m sats. Maybe Idgaf about 0.1 BTC. There are people out there for who 10 BTC is pocket change
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I agree with you. Thanks for your coment!
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About the same here - hope but not faith. I don't believe Bitcoin has enough people who would protest loudly if there was a severe government crackdown. Imagine if the IMF or similar org were to mandate all members to ban Bitcoin, with a minimum of 10 years in prison for exchanging, buying with, and perhaps even holding it. Sure, the network wouldn't go down, but the price... And all the proposed surveillance and censorship laws in the EU, the US, the UK, what are they for? Monitoring whether Bitcoin is being used, and by whom, if and when such a ban is put in place? Not everyone has the willingness or even ability to pull up their roots and move to El Salvador or some other Bitcoin-friendly nation. And perhaps the US would even go to war with all such nations if they don't quit Bitcoining, in order to prevent them from becoming economically bigger than the US and its allies. Wars for smaller things have been started by the US.
I'm not selling the BTC I have left, at least not yet, just in case it goes well - it has multiplied many times in fiat value from the time I mined it, and I have already used more than enough to cover those costs - and I'm earning a little bit here on SN, but I don't have more than a maybe 15% belief that Bitcoin will be legal where I live, or be worth the same or more than today in 2033.
It would need a very fast adoption by ~30% of the population in the countries under the control of the IMF and similar organizations, in my very rough estimation (guess). Within 5 years, maybe even less.
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I don't believe Bitcoin has enough people who would protest loudly if there was a severe government crackdown.
Of course. I was discussing with this guy the other day, and he was telling me that Bitcoin adoption is at nearly 10%. I almost fell out of my chair! I think it's more like 0.10% I'm doing my part trying to educate people, but I'm not able to move the needle at all...
I also agree with you in the network -vs- adoption thing. I see all that people saying "Bitcoin doesn't care, 1 block each 10 minutes, lol!!"...
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It's good to see critical thinking.
I'm a Bitcoin believer and I put all my disposable income into it, because I haven't reached my goals yet. Here is my thinking...
The technology has proven itself. It's not ideal and it's undergoing changes, which are not always flawless, but - as it stands - Bitcoin, as a technology, is the best thing there is and it's hard to imagine anything better.
As for the human side, there is potential for it to fail, but if it does, it will mean humanity is a cesspit and we're doomed to live under the increasingly heavier boot of the state. In that case, losing my wealth will be the least of my worries. Who wants to live in a cesspit anyway?
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As for the human side, there is potential for it to fail
Yeah, this was more of a rant about bitcoiners than about bitcoin itself.
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Humans learn by mistakes... grab your popcorn cup or your preferred book and keep enjoying life mate 🤙 PV
Seres humanos aprenden haciendo errores... coge tu taza de palomitas o tu libro preferido y sigue disfrutando de la vida compañero 🤙 Pura Vida
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Tienes razón, hay que disfrutar de lo que se tiene :)
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The US gave up their right to print money to private banks back in 1913. The American people, including several presidents, have not been able to stop this cabal who has taken over and runs the world. Bitcoin is an attempt to create something relative to the cabal's current system. I don't think it was ever intended to be the masses money, but a tool to opt out of the current system. This is meant for protecting wealth, not as the worlds sole medium of exchange for frivolous spending. Also, Satoshi knew that this wasn't going to be a pretty transition, and not everyone whould use it. Ignore the use-cases you don't like, people have been storing data in bitcoin since the beginning. Look on the bright side, some information making it through in the future might be worth storing all those monkey jpegs, think technology, etc.
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in the same way you assume most people are ignorant of what is best for them, you ought to assume regimes are made of the very same ignorants and therefore the mechanisms of control are equally mediocre as the people that commands them... your opinions come from a financially privileged background, thats very clear from the moment you compared fiat and bitcoin operations only considering the usefulness for the user but selectively ignoring the censorship resistance considerations... this is indeed the most important aspect of bitcoin for us in the third world and needs to be considered in every value judgement if we want to be fair appraising our success as a movement
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I had to bookmark this post because I will always come back to it whenever I feel I'm losing faith because the recommendation of custodial wallets is at all-time high especially when you see Bitcoin Maximalists doing so.
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Thanks a lot. But let's think of ways to improve this?
I have one: lets help Phoenix, Blixt, BitKit advance with their wallets. If you can code, give them some code, if you can try and report bugs, do it. If you have a podcast, try and recommend the best ones.
What other stuff we could do?
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I'm using Munn Wallet, I'm not a coder but I'm more of a U.I designer
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I think Muun is a self-custody wallet, so it's not that bad, but it's not really a lightning wallet, so if you tell people "lightning on the other hand has very little fees, look", and it's false because fees are still very high :)
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If you're where you say you are you would fairly easily be able to see thru the "mud" of Samourai vs Wasabi tbh. It's the easiest and best litmus test I've seen yet. The ones who recommend JM at the end are the best 😂
Run your own node and stfu about xpubs. Not a terrible ragequit otherwise though, you had me in the first half ngl. My bitcoin salary will keep flowing and I'll keep using the tools, ppl just need to stop with the "mass adoption" delusion and empower individuals instead. Mass adoption dreams will always result in custodial solutions.
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Yes, we need to be better prepared for the state attack.
Blixt & OBW need to improve. I struggled to pay an open node invoice from both of these wallets the other day.
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For Bitcoin to dominate, the trash in power must be exterminated, which cannot happen peacefully. People must be willing to die protecting their freedoms. All these talks and protests are complete rubbish and a waste of time. Also, Bitcoin domination can quickly happen if as little as 10% of the global population adopts it and refuses to comply with the dystopian and illegal government regulations. Regrettably, as Covid confirmed, the human race is 99% dumb as shit, so yeah, it will take a lot more effort from those of us who know what it takes to win. Otherwise, they do. I'm optimistic. We all have to be.
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Sorry I stopped reading after take against custodial services because it followed take about adoption.
Bitcoin achieved critical mass of technologies so it is no more a monolithic community. We do even have 2 CoinJoin implementations which aren't friends meanwhile they could cooperatively increase each other anonymity set. This is just an example.
Bitcoin has plenty of "adoption projects" under Bitcoin Beach franchise, there is no protocol which does that.
There are legit points too. This is why we are here. But Bitcoin is not an end goal, Bitcoin is the way.
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What way? Stack-until-you-die?
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Visit Travala, buy a ticket to Bitcoin Beach. I don't know. Everything is individual. I basically have no other option that "stack-until-you-die". I can't have bank accounts in my country of citizenship, this is pointless and it may be arrested, soon I may be forbidden to have accounts in EU. So I don't have hard choices here.
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Fair. I mean we all get discouraged at times. It would be nice to flip a switch and everything is where we want it to be instead of being in the midst of the mess. Things were a lot better for folks 20 years the revolutionary war than they were for the folks in the midst of it. I think bitcoin adoption will continue to grow but I don't expect the battles to get any easier. In the end we will win because we have to or our children will be sold into a life of fiat slavery but there are no easy answers, no clear path when you are in the trenches. There is only staying alive and pushing forward one step at a time.
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And yes when the last battle begins, many of the loudest voices will turn tail and run. They will sell their bitcoin for fiat riches and say they have done their part to get us to that point. We will all be disappointed. We will be disillusioned but new heroes will emerge.
We all need to ask ourselves what we are willing to sacrifice for the world we are hoping to transition to. I am not willing to die for bitcoin or spend my life in prison (I have 2 kids), but I am willing to take my family and leave my country for a friendlier jurisdiction, and I am willing to risk my bitcoin stack going down 99.9% in value. I am willing to work for free to help grow bitcoin adoption. I am willing to spend and donate some of my stack to grow adoption. I am willing to defend bitcoin in the public and political sphere.
As I said in my last comment. There are no easy answers. Push forward.
I am reminded of the time I took my son (he was 10 at the time) hiking in the hills (small mountain used for skiing) around where we live. We reached the peak later than we expected and the sun was starting to set, we needed to get to more stable terrain by the time it got dark so we tried to take a shortcut through a steep tree lined area near a small stream. I knew if we followed the stream we would find our way down eventually. The terrain was steep, wet, and difficult. My son fell down multiple times. He cut up both his knees and wrists falling on a rocky area at one point. The terrain was difficult, I could only help him physically to a certain point while maintaining my footing. We were not in mortal danger but could have gotten badly hurt if we weren't careful. At one point, seemingly going in circles in a steep area where we had to hold onto tree branches to keep from slipping and rolling a steep tree lined area, my son stopped and started crying. He was spent, mentally and physically, he wanted to give up. I couldn't do this for him, we needed to make it down this difficult passage. So I told him we have three options: 1)We can quit and stay here for the night in the cold with no food, little water left, get bitten endlessly by bugs and be miserable until sunrise, 2)we can yell, scream, cry, try to call for help and hope someone will come to save us, 3) we can push forward and find a path home. He agreed to push forward and we did. A few minutes after overcoming the most difficult section we had faced, through the trees, not far away, I saw what looked like a grassy area, we struggled our way through the trees. We had found our way to the last downhill slope of one of the ski runs and just like that I knew exactly where we were, with just enough light to get to the bottom and find our way back to the car as night set in.
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Beautiful story. I also have 2 kids and yeah, they deserve that we push as hard as possible.
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Thanks, I am not sure my son remembers it as fondly as I do though but hopefully he learned something.
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Yes, I'm sure of it :)
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I've written many times about the need in bitcoin for more on-chain and 2nd layer privacy, that's built in and enabled in all the tools we use. And not just written about, but also sponsored projects / developers who are doing the hard work of making the code work.
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Yes. For some reason, that's not a priority. I don't know why.
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The Hodl culture and meme is easier to explain than the Hodl+Spend so it's easier for one to be more popular, especially since the Hodl is a lot older of a meme. Having Lightning definitely helps the Hodl+Spend crew.
One problem I've had with the culture is the inability to admit the scaling problem. We say that Bitcoin needs nothing else but even when segwit was made, we knew that it couldn't scale perfectly. If we wanted it to work on a global scale, Lightning's whitepaper cites 133 MB blocks for 8 billion people. Taproot and Schnorr Sig's ability to aggregate will definitely help but it'll only get us so far. I think the best next upgrade would be CTV, CheckTemplateVerify, to explain its behavior, if Taproot and Schnorr can aggregate signatures, CTV allows you to aggregate transactions. A next perk to this is that anytime you create a covenant, you aren't the individual paying the fee to commit your transaction [unless you're spending to yourself of course]. When you're wanting to receive payment, you create the pubkey address that they will spend it to, but what they don't know is the details of that Script key. You could program in it a few channels, some going to cold storage and some going to George, the guy next door. No one will know until you inform that person of your secret covenant transaction. I've done a few write-ups so far and am always welcoming feedback, so no one hesitate to comment!
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That sound very good. Thanks for the links. I'll read them :)
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Hodl culture and meme is easier to explain than the Hodl+Spend so it's easier for one to be more popular, especially since the Hodl is a lot older of a meme
Is it? the concept of using a currency as a curreny should be older and easier to understand?
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Well, as we all KNOW that bitcoin will be valued at millions in a few years, why purchase anything with it now?
That's the narrative. The thing that scares me is being rich but not being able to purchase foot or shelter for my family. So eventually your $1 million bitcoin is worthless.
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Thanks for speaking with clarity and conviction. I have 2 questions:
  1. What can I do as a individual/developer to encourage more businesses to accept BTC?
  2. What's your take on the nostr ecosystem that enables payments using lightning? Do you think this community is aiding adoption of btc by demonstrating the transaction rates under stress test? Or could they do any better?
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Juntos podemos
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My fear is that Bitcoin is a CIA project that was meant to make Digital Payments appear palatable to the populace (meaning we bitcoiners are the greater fools) paving the way for the panopticon of CBDCs. I.e. once the populace got hooked onto Bitcoin it would make it much more easier to slide in a CBDC.
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I also gave that a little % of probability, but after this 3 last years, I know 99.5% of the people will accept whatever is imposed on them.
So I don't think it's government-based, but if it was, then thank you for the gift! :)
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Yeah it's a brilliant thing regardless of whether Satoshi is real or a government agency
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Other than people trusting governments I don't understand why anyone would choose a CBDC over BTC? Especially if the US government hyper-inflates USD and offers a CBDC as the savior.
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normies do normie things, but IF it is indeed that the govt. itself made Bitcoin, then sliding in CBDCs must have always been the plan. Now CBDCs are at our doorstep and normies wouldn't oppose it. They will even believe that Bitcoin is a scam and a government issued CBDC is to be trusted.
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You said it: people trust their governments. They're good and they're here to take care of us.
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i have some doubts about BTC as well. buying BTC is a transfer of wealth from one system to another. BTC will be vulnerable to unequal wealth distribution, with the rich getter richer
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But at least it's the freedom loving that will get the richest. It's a transfer of wealth from the controllers to the libertarians and anarchists.
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Yes, it's better than nothing.
And also, I think people of poor countries with very bad currencies are adopting bitcoin at a faster pace than people in "rich" countries. That's also good :)
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Daaamn, 76k sats for this post? 👀 That's gotta help the faith a whee bit, no?
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Thank you. Bitcoin is not inevitable, and it's only by getting a grip on these struggles and challenges that we can work to make it happen.
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Thanks for sparking the discussion and cleaning up Madrid!
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My pleasure.
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So what’s the alternative to bitcoin?
Thanks for writing all your thoughts down, in two languages no less 🙏
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"the worst is yet to come" - BRING IT! MY BODY IS READY!
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I guess that's easier said than done... but let's see :)
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Im living a remnant life too. Ultra low cost, earning btc only, spreading adoption and seeing the ineptitute of normies to use btc unless its reaching ATHs.
Currently Im fully in the mindset of: Governments will illegalize anonymous usage of Bitcoin. Its gonna be uneforcable and people will avoid the laws. Ofc not everyone, scared normies will cave in and sign their stack and doxx it. Some will sell in fear.
But if your government bans people from knowledge of 12 random words, they need Bitcoin more and not less. Bitcoin trades at heavy premiums in countries where its illegal.
We are gonna make it but there needs to be constant push: NO KYC, HOLD KEYS!
I struggled with your feelings as well but I came at peace with the eventuality that world is gonna go very poorly and most of my friends or relatives arent gonna make it.
You can only talk to them, you cant change there minds.
Be there when they get interested. Until then lets build our defense weapons. P2P trading is ultra needed. Privacy tech.
Onwards!
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Yeah, I agree with you. You can only hope we have the time to make everything work before the thing go south. Thanks for your words :)
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When we say it's inevitable, we mean the transition from fiat to the hardest money ever discovered is inevitable. Likewise, the use of "energy as money" in the human ecosystem is inevitable, by the same basic game theory principles that drive other ecosystems in nature. The blocks will continue running no matter what happens in geopolitics, and countries that attack the chain will be forced to compete with countries that embrace it.
But that's not a refutation of anything you said. I think your criticisms of things as they stand are solid.
It's entirely possible a lot of "Bitcoin Twitter" is NGMI and the meek will inherit the UTXO.
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A few years ago I was thinking the same about competing jurisdictions, but after the Covid/lockdowns thing, I guess for some matters there is already just one big world government, and things will only get worst.
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such is the power of capitalism and gunpowder. it will take some time until bit gets its turn. it will happen only after a war. a war between fiat and bit, blood needs to be spilled. lots and lots of blood. thank you for the thoughtful words.
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Blood has been spilled from the begining and It will be on the future sadly but true. The real question for me is was it worth It fot all, this Blood a suffer? It might be a time when we (all humans) will fight against something bigger, smarter and stronger than us and maybe created by us or not. At that point we will realize if what we are fighting today and were fighting a long time ago was a real win or a lose. The clock won't stop because of us and one day we will look at this 100 years with tears or with joy. It looks dumb but if anybody wants I will explain why and how. I am nobody, I know and already accept that but maybe if you give a chance you could be surprised.. worst case scenario i am just crazy and you Lost some time but what if ... Also there is a problem with mass adoption of blockchain at this point on time and is not just BTC or CBDCs (game changer) if we want to have more chances in future (maybe still not enough) the world debt needs to be destroy in this stage as is the only chance we Will have for a long time (trust me or not) or whoever wins will be cursed no matter Who as the end is always the same on that path...but there is a time were real change can be made if we fight for the right things and is not just about money or freedom (even knowing that this IS BIG too) but don't be dumb like me, the real fight is to have a chance later even if you are not the one fighting tomorrow. Sorry if mistakes and thank you whoever reads this
I can't say I agree 100% with your entire post, but you raise good issues that I sometimes have difficulty resolving, such as the hodl/spend paradox.
Thanks for a thoughtful write up.
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I don't see the hodl/spend as a paradox. If we want that bitcoin is available to be used as a tool when we really need it, we need to start building stuff. There won't be stuff if people just stack and don't buy stuff with bitcoin.
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That's ok, no faith required.
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I agree with you.
We don't need more people "using" Lightning, we need better non-custodial wallet so people can actually use Lightning. The bigger we make the custodial solutions, the harder they will be to replace and if they become irreplaceable, we'll just be back to square one.
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Chat GPT TLDR says:
"The author, who identifies as a libertarian/anarchist and a Bitcoin enthusiast, has started to question the convictions of the Bitcoin community. The author questions the wisdom of the community's promotion of accumulating Bitcoin instead of using it for transactions. The author is critical of the developers and influencers in the community and thinks that Bitcoin adoption may not be inevitable. The author is also concerned about state intervention in Bitcoin and advocates for more private transactions. Finally, the author notes that Bitcoin adoption among businesses is not as widespread as people might think."
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Good summary!
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This cycle bitter letters and rage quitting are on stacker.news.
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We have to be able to spend crypto to be free of control. It’s as simple as that. Whether it’s bitcoin or something else, we have to be able to directly spend it.
If not, it’s too easy to create bottlenecks by controlling exchanges or other custodial services we’d be forced to use just to spend our money.
This has always been the most important thing for making bitcoin successful, and ensuring its growth and true monetary sovereignty, but the maxis who took over the narrative and hypnotized bitcoiners in 2017 destroyed that ethos.
Before 2017 we all were constantly pushing for merchant adoption everywhere. Then the devs decided not to make any compromises with other parts of the community (who actually USED btc), to heavily censor r/bitcoin, and to go on a propaganda campaign to convince everyone this was the way.
As a result, all momentum for merchant adoption was destroyed. Completely. It had been on an awesome uptrend for years and it was completely killed by $50 fees. Now think about that. Either those guys were co-opted and malicious, or they were autistic and ignorant of the real world, but either way, they were severely detrimental to adoption of btc.
Then they went on a campaign to tell everyone to just hodl and that credit cards were great - we didn’t need to have merchant adoption - LN would come someday.
Yeah, well maybe it will, but that was idiotic. With a little bump like they did for allowing larger scripts, we could have avoided the insane fees for a few years and now have a decent LN, without destroying the entire ecosystem of merchants that loved btc. Without causing a major fork.
We did so much hard work between 2012 and 2017 and they fucked it all up, and I am pretty pissed about it. If you can understand that, you can understand why so many OGs supported BCH at the time. It wasn’t a scam. It was people wanting to be able to spend their fucking bitcoin like they’d been doing for the previous 4-5 years, and not be pushed into a corner and controlled by the USG controlling every on and off ramp.
We have to be able to spend bitcoin directly. Full stop.
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SAVING IS USI
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The more people who lose faith, the closer we are to the end of the bear market. Hodl!
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All of this is kind of true and I agree with it mostly. But I have still "faith" for some reasons. One of the reason 'among many others) is that these terrible people capable of anything should have shut down the internet a while ago in order to achieve their evil goals. But hey didn't because they came late and underestimated the thing. And more importantly they finally realized they the benefits for themselves was more important than the cons.
Something similar could really happen for Bitcoin. The dystopian scenario where all States go together full north Korea is not the most plausible one IMO I could come up with a lot more points advocating for a relatively quick victory for Bitcoin (in our lifetime), but my only advice for you to keep faith is to remind you to not be a high time preference guy.
Bitcoin is still incredibly new, and need much more time to become money obviously. Keep seeing the glass half full rather than half empty cause you are witnessing every single year tremendous improvements in the Bitcoin space. Now people have a choice, younger generation and more tech savvy generation are coming too, as you say we are not smarter just more freedom lovers, so many more people will eventually come to the same conclusion than us
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Yes, I think you're right.
I'll try to influence the people near to me, hope for the best, and live my life :)
Thanks!
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I randomly clicked a link in Twitter to this post and saw my handle.
Generally, I do think Bitcoin culture needs to evolve and the problem is probably greed-based. People just wanna hear things and cheerlead ideas that might make them rich. Other than that, most nuance is lost.
People can handle self-custody, and self-custody can be a good experience.
Our wallet Bitkit it getting really close to being ready to add people. The beta version we will release this week is the first time the LN node inside is working mostly reliably. We're excited to keep innovating on the UX.
We're also collaborating with several teams to make LSPs interoperable and preparing to utilize all the latest research to make our "zero lightning experience" where users don;t need to know whether they are using LN or not.
It'll take time, but we'll get there!
And yes, if you arent spending BTC, you're bearish! Once youre all-in, the urge to increase merchant adoption begins.
Sorry for the rant, and thanks for thinking critically about Bitcoin. It's important we all do our part to get this right.
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Thanks for replying, John.
Let's see how that beta of BitKit works!
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Zas! Ostia de realidad. Muchas gracias por el contenido. Nos abre aún más los ojos.
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Eso es lo que pretendía. Gracias.
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I am not losing my faith because there are people like you!
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I apreciate your post but one thing I might disagree with is people not spending their Bitcoin. If you are a free market capitalist you must respect the maket decisions even if they don't suite your whishes. People saving their Bitcoin money today is delaying gratification and I sure you're doing the same thing in some way, since Bitcoin is becoming of a store of value to people it doesn't shock me at all and I think they use it for it is and protect their family wealth. Spending your bitcoins to accelerate mass adoption is flawed in many ways. First of all not too many people understand nor deserve bitcoin yet, second Bitcoin is infinitly divisible if nobody spend nor sell their bitcoin people will transact in sats and sats value will go much higer but nobody save their bitcoin the opposit will happen. Spend your bitcoin for the sake of adoption is same as the Keynesian mindset of spending your bitcoin for the sake of a growing economy.
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I keep hearing that Bitcoin is inevitable. I'm sorry, but it is NOT. Do you think email would have been an information exchange system for over 40 years if they hadn't invested in spam control systems 20 years ago?
Also, email is totally captured at this point. (Almost) Nobody runs their own because (among other reasons) it's impossible to get your data recorded they the spam filters
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Something I always remind myself of— there is no such thing as a “community”. This is a market. Not just any market, but the only free market for a finite resource in the known universe.
The participants in this market are not your brethren, they’re technically your opposition. Their mistakes are your opportunities, your mistake will be hurting your own chances by trying to save them.
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Have you read Layered Money by Nik Bhatia? It explains this dichotomy. Gold used to be at the top of the pyramid. Bitcoin will sit atop the digital economy pyramid.
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BASED AF
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Very long post, but there are several things that ring true. However then I stop and think, this is still very early. It’s possible we need to lapse in popularity for a while and then to re emerge. You may have fallen too hard for btc and now disappointed on the speed of adoption, but that doesn’t mean you are right, just that you timelines don’t align with reality
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for half a second I was able to pay off a credit card with bitcoin using bitrefill IT WAS AMAZING. it took a while to post but still i had dreams of only ever having bitcoin and just paying off credit card. then the program was stopped with no real reason (around went regulations started to ramp up), I want to spend my bitcoin but I don't want to sell my bitcoin for fiat.
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I'm coming from a far less maxi viewpoint. I think Ethereum has its uses and I don't think Balaji is a scammer (but I condemned his $1m bet).
In general I'm more optimistic. There's a lot of talk about scaling in the comments but Fedimint is not yet mentioned. But I think if Fedi will really be as great as they promised then it would be a major vector for Bitcoin adoption. And I don't have an absolute aversion to custodial solutions, after all, Liquid is also a federated custodial solution, but it looks fine to me.
I agree that the government attack is upcoming. Phoenix will probably the first to implement censorship since the company is in the EU and the routing is done on the company's hardware. I'm sure the gov will hunt down several fedimints too, once they exist. But I don't think we're losing? The more bullshit banks do, the more Bitcoin wins.
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Yeah, they probably will come for the public faces first.
I'm not too worried about the scaling issues. I think they'll keep improving. The issue is that maybe we won't need those improvements if more people don't start using BTC. Let's see...
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When you are done with your rant and pessimism, I hope you come back with some nice concrete suggestions and hard work on being the change, but above all with some positivity which is really scarce in this world.
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Yes, that's just what I plan to do.
Anyways, I've already made some small contributions to open-source projects like Zeus, Raspiblitz, nos2x, Polar, Hexa and Plebeian Market. What did you do?
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жизнь задаёт вопрос биткоину. зачем жизни нужен биткоин? что биткоин может дать жизни, чего жизнь не может дать биткоину?
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писатель блин... жить вечно хочешь? храни биткоин! но передать можно по наследству.
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HODL was a Wall St psyop. LARPers are everywhere.
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TLDR. Hope things work out in your favor. :
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you will be able to use your btc as collateral to take out loans in dollars like ledn in the future. Just hold, stack sats and use as collateral. Never ever sell just loan out until we reach 1 sat is 1 usd. This will happen and this doesnt even count the denominations lower than 1 sat.
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Te felicito , es un gran llamado de atención , me hice el mismo planteo durante la pandemia , y decidí gastar algo después de 10 años de apilar . Pero ahora estoy convencido que debemos utilizarlo como dinero cuando lo necesitemos o tengamos algo que queremos . Y luego volver a apilar es dinero , dinero duro .
Excelente artículo, destacando la imperiosa necesidad de convertirnos más en críticos que en fanáticos de Bitcoin.